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I have finally had it tonight. For a number of months I have seen the venom fly towards Democratic candidates, Members of Congress and each other. For months I have been trying to overlook the extreme behavior and save my fire for Republicans (the real enemies), but tonight I’m pulling the plug. I have had enough of the hit diaries and posts that fly when the author’s own candidates are not doing well. I am tired of the rants when things do not go our way in Washington. Sure, I am frustrated, too. But people have been frustrated with Congress for over 200 years. I’m not saying that Congressional leadership has not let us down, but it does not give us license to use epithets at will. Sometimes I even think there are people who hope we lose next year just to prove their point. I do remember for a fact that some hoped we would not win the Virginia Senate so they can blame Reid and Pelosi for the loss.

It’s your right, but I am going to exercise my right and move along. There are plenty of other blogs from which to get my information. It’s been a great ride and my thanks to many of those I have met and coversed with. I’ll leave the door open for a return, so it is by no means farewell.

Originally posted to RandySF on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 09:41 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  sorry it aint all chocolate and candy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dr Colossus
    •  Actually, it's NO chocolate and candy. n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
    •  I don't expect chocolate and candy (0+ / 0-)

      but I do expect Kossacks to remember who the enemy is, and it ain't us.

      I'm not leaving, but with the exception of the FPers and a few sane diarists I no longer depend on dKos for fact-based information that is useful for electing Dems. I think that's kind of sad.

      Hopefully, once the primaries are over some sanity will return to dKos and we can get back to the business of taking our country back.

      We find that after years of struggle we do not take a journey, but rather a journey takes us. John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley

      by tigerdog on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 02:37:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Us who? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Alexander G Rubio, TomP

        So Reid refusing to honor Dodd's hold on the FISA bill giving immunity to telcoms is the Republican's fault?  Pelosi taking impechment off the table for the most egregious of crimes (no blow jobs here) is also the Republicans fault.  How? Did they threaten to waterboard her grandkids?   And all the bull shit bravado, "we will not fund this war without timelines" is who?  Dick Cheney channeling through them?

        Voters will take this party and country back from bad politicians, Democrat and Republican alike.  So, good bye and good luck.   We'll let you know when it is safe to come out.

        •  I think you need to re-read my comment (0+ / 0-)

          after you've had another cup of coffee and your mind is clear. Or very possibly I did not make myself clear. ;-)

          So Reid refusing to honor Dodd's hold on the FISA bill giving immunity to telcoms is the Republican's fault?  Pelosi taking impechment off the table for the most egregious of crimes (no blow jobs here) is also the Republicans fault.  How? Did they threaten to waterboard her grandkids?   And all the bull shit bravado, "we will not fund this war without timelines" is who?  Dick Cheney channeling through them?

          What does that have to do with candidate hit diaries and the ensuing comment flame wars, which is primarily what this diary was about and what I was referring to in my comment?

          Voters will take this party and country back from bad politicians, Democrat and Republican alike.

          I agree.

          So, good bye and good luck.   We'll let you know when it is safe to come out.

          I never said I was leaving, in fact I said specifically that I'm not leaving. (Not that I would be missed if I did leave, lol) I also said "with the exception of the FPers and a few sane diarists I no longer depend on dKos for fact-based information that is useful for electing Dems."

          I expect/hope the level of discourse will improve once the insanity of the primaries is over, but while I'm waiting I'll also be seeking out alternate sources for useful information where I don't have to wade through diary after diary of venomous rants against this or that candidate, filled with right wing talking points, lies, cherry-picked and/or inaccurate information, and pure unadulterated hatred, etc. in order to get to information that is accurate, well sourced and of real value.

          We find that after years of struggle we do not take a journey, but rather a journey takes us. John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley

          by tigerdog on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 05:02:35 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  some good points, really (10+ / 0-)

    Sometimes I, too, feel like this blog is more about beating up on our own side than about defeating Republicans.  And frankly, I have no sympathy for those frustrated by Congress.  Progress never moves that fast except in one-party dictatorships.

    Personally, I don't think I'll leave, at least just yet, but I definitely understand where you're coming from especially those damned rant diaries.  Jesus, people, save that shit for LJ and Myspace.

    All your vote are belong to us.

    by Harkov311 on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 09:45:50 PM PST

  •  Come back in six weeks (39+ / 0-)

    when the primaries are over. It'll be better.

    In terms of beating up on Dems? Sometimes we have to. Sometimes we need to be the left flank to give them the room they need to operate in their caucuses, and sometimes they just need a big ol' slap upside the head.

    •  Yup. Sometimes we need to help them (10+ / 0-)

      look moderate and sensible.  Just like some days I figure I was put on earth to make other people look intelligent, attractive, and competent.

      It's my little contribution.

    •  I sure hope it's not over in 6 weeks (6+ / 0-)

      That would mean late January, before the Feb. 5 states get a chance to weigh in.

      No....make it 7 or 8 weeks.

    •  bingo (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mcjoan, Lepanto

      if we don't hold them accountable, who will?

      Head to Heading Left, BlogTalkRadio's progressive radio site!

      by thereisnospoon on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:01:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Primaries aren't over until (4+ / 0-)

      Mike Gravel says they're over.

      Democratic Candidate for US Senate (Wisconsin 2012)
      Court certified Marijuana Expert

      by ben masel on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:04:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  how about come back in a Friedman unit all (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mcjoan, tigerdog, llbear, skohayes

      we need is another six months and everything will be better  you'll see........

    •  Tone, Joan (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      In terms of beating up on Dems? Sometimes we have to. Sometimes we need to be the left flank to give them the room they need to operate in their caucuses, and sometimes they just need a big ol' slap upside the head.

      I wrote this somewhere else tonight, but I'll repost it here:

      [O]ur calling the Dems "capitulators" makes public adoption of that frame more likely.  And if it must be said, I’d say it more in sorry than in anger, and more in anger than contempt, because contempt – the Official Emotion of the Blogosphere – simply places the writer-reader pair above the subject being discussed; it’s a cheap way to maintain esprit, but it comes at a cost in ultimate political success that I’m not willing to pay.

      That’s what I mean by "tone" – not that it’s necessarily supportive at all, but simply that it’s not destructive.  My guide of how to behave is pretty clear: look towards what movement conservatives, who have had a lot more practice pressuring their politicians than we have, say about their leaders, and figure out which comments make us, their opponents, happy and which do not.  When some conservative says that the whole GOP delegation isn’t worth a sack of shit because they can’t deliver on XYZ bill, it makes me smile.  When they rededicate themselves to the task of bringing them to heel, with grim determination rather than sardonic quips, it makes me nervous.  I don’t want my opponents to smile; I want them nervous and upset.  So I want to mimic the latter approach rather than the former, because I care more about what ultimately happens in 2008 and beyond than quipping myself to heaven on a blog.

      Appointing oneself to the position of holding the whip hand is a fatally corrupting temptation.  The things that we can do to most strongly prod the Democratic Party -- whip up contempt of them for weakness -- are the very things that do the most damage to our chances of political success if they do not capitulate to us.  (And let's be clear -- if it's not what they're naturally inclined to do, it's "capitulation" either way; we're just upset -- me included -- at whom they're deciding to capitulate to.  So we should critique them on the substance of what they do, not the bare fact that they can give in to pressure.)

      As long as they blogosphere is willing to tear down the Temple if we don't get our way, we will not be taken more seriously than any other agitating group.  We can and should be much more than that, given how much we have to offer -- but it may mean having less fun slamming people.  The extent to which we're willing to make that trade -- by modulating the tone of the criticisms of our leaders as well as most Republican interest groups have done -- will determine our collective future.  Politicians will not sit still for ridicule; it's always been that powerful.  They won't capitulate to those who ridicule them; they will withdraw from interaction with them.

      To far to great an extent, they have withdrawan from here.  What have we to show for it?  Legislative victories?  Evidently not.  A huge portfolio of snark over which to reminisce and congratulate one another for not being fooled?  That we have.

      [S]ometimes they just need a big ol' slap upside the head.

      Slapping them, as opposed to "not in anger" criticism, feels good.  What a great and irresistable role for us.  But: show me where it has worked.

      If somebody writes a book and doesn't care for [its] survival, he's an imbecile. U. Eco. (P.S.: my opinions are mine, not my employer's.)

      by Major Danby on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 04:28:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Tone, yourself, sir (0+ / 0-)

        A condescending attitude and patronizing tone do little to buttress any argument. Particularly when you're talking to one of the more circumspect among us.

        •  If the message were directed solely (0+ / 0-)

          at you, circumspect madam, it would have been an e-mail.  When we write here, we write for our message to be heard by a broader audience, now or later.  It was prompted by your designation of the netroots as Head Slappers For All That Is Good.

          If you want to see a condescending attitude and patronizing tone in criticism, I suggest that you take a look at most of the commentary directed towards Democratic leaders on this site.  If your point is that that criticism is ineffective -- and that the "big ol' slap upside the head" in my comment above doesn't actually end up doing much good because it can be so readily dismissed by those committed to their own world view and sense of their own roles and prerogatives within the political system -- well, there's something to chew on.

          By the way, my argument didn't need "buttressing"; it was there for you or anyone to engage -- or to ignore, if they found engaging it infra dig.

          If somebody writes a book and doesn't care for [its] survival, he's an imbecile. U. Eco. (P.S.: my opinions are mine, not my employer's.)

          by Major Danby on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 02:59:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Yeah, I try to avoid the "candidate" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    auapplemac, tigerdog, rainmanjr

    diaries.  That's where it gets nasty, but there you go.

    And, agreed, I enjoy reading analysis like the recc'd diary by thereisnospoon, rather than the attitudes that lithium cola makes fun of.

    On the other hand, we all need to rant, and sometimes we get some pretty entertaining ones, here.  Like buddydharma or onepissedoffliberal with a full head of steam.   Not to be missed.

    But yeah.  It wears.  And a vacation is often in order.  Take care.  I've enjoyed reading your comments.

    •  And edscan (although that's more than a rant). (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ray Radlein, Pluto, TruthOfAngels, oxon
    •  We don't all need to rant (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Marlboro Lite, Pacifist, mango

      This site isn't meant as a stand-in for psychotherapy. It's supposed to be for serious discussion.

      To be honest, I don't know why I keep coming back, because there is precious little serous discusssion.

      As I've been saying for some time now, this site is like the 24-hour news station on your radio -- except instead of news, it's "ALL outrage, ALL the time."

      Sites like this were started in response to the influence of right-wing hate radio. Unfortunately, it's just become the mirror-image of the thing we were fighting against. The same lousy, hateful rhetoric and attitude, just with left-wing coloration.

      I'd say "no thanks," too, but I'm not sure I'm strong enough to stay away. I do feel like I occasionally learn something here -- I mean leaarn something positive about the world, not just about how mindlessly polemical some people can be when they decide it's OK to let anger be their guide.

      Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

      by FischFry on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:10:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Why shouldn't we be outraged. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Simplify, Lepanto, dus7, KingCranky

        Our congress does nothing, our presnit is an idiot and the people running to replace him are 2 steps up from him.  

        Sad but true politics stinks.  At least people have figured it out

        •  Goodness Gracious. A revelation. Sound and Fury (9+ / 0-)

          People disappointed in politicians? I never heard of such a thing in all my 43 years. At least, people have figured it out. First, there was that wheel thing that guy figured out a few years back, then sliced bread, now this.

          Your Democratic Congress is despreately trying to lay the groundwork for an effective governing majority and Presidency, which will accomplish far more than your supposed outrage ever will.

          There's nothing wrong with outrage, if it's real. Posting on a website, or sending email to your congressperson? That's real outrage?

          This reminds me of Colbert's riff on the Don't Taze Me, Bro guy. He's getting manhandled by the security, and his fellow students are sitting in their seats, looking bored, or pretending not to notice. As Colbert said, they're hoping it finishes soon, so they can go home and watch it on You Tube and get angry about it. G-d forbid you should actually protest the old-fashioned way...taking some time away from your computer to interact with people, not screen names, and to march or sit-in, or do something that people will actually notice, and shows that you actually care enough to do someting besides sit on your ass and whine. If you're not willing to do that, then you're not truly outraged. You're just playing at outrage on your internet blogsite videogame substitute. 'Check me out, dudes. Check out my outrage! What's my score?'

          As the man once said, "Sound and Fury, signifying nothing."

          Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

          by FischFry on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:39:15 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  outrage at our pathetic dems is not the same (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pacifist, mango, FischFry, KingCranky

          as the partisan attacks on the candidates which serves no end. all it does is spread the hatred and meaness that has come to characterize america these days.

    •  well truth be told the occasional rant or using (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      the site to vent frustration is well within what is needed. there is a group of partisans for their candidates who seem to think that hacking at the other dem candidates somehow puts their special one in a better position. i say bullshit to that! it makes the poster or diary person look mean and vindictive without convincing anyone who isn't already on their side. HEY GANG! IT DOESN'T WORK!

  •  I got talked down from the cliff (11+ / 0-)

    last week so I will just say...please stay.  

    Join us at Bookflurries: Bookchat Wednesday evenings 8 PM EST

    by cfk on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 09:52:14 PM PST

  •  wait til the 5th of Feb (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ray Radlein, andgarden, Shahryar

    all will be well as Julian of Norwich famously said.

    I will make them have it. I will stuff their mouths with Gold!--Aneurin Bevan (on the NHS)

    by Salo on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 09:53:44 PM PST

  •  Bullshit (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Predictor, KingCranky

    Sometimes I wonder why I stick around when I see people like you that are more worried about epithets directed at weak minded politicians than they are about the things that those weak minded politicians cause to happen, or allow to happen, such as torture, war, etc.

    The bullshit is thick and the hypocrisy rank. Good riddance, but if you happen to figure out a better approach than running away, I'll probably be one of the first to welcome you back.

    •  Please go (5+ / 0-)

      If you don't understand his point, you're too full of the anger and bile that repels him. I doubt you'd be one of the first to welcome him back. That would require taking time out from calling out everyone else's bullshit and hypocrisy. Let me ask you this: If the politicians are so weak-minded, how come they ran for office, and you're sitting in front of your keyboard with your eptihets at the ready? Doing something to bring about chanbge? Let's see: Running for Congress, or typing curse words on a website. I wonder which is more courageous, takes more dedication, and is more likely to bring about actual change?

      Coming Soon -- to an Internet connection near you:

      by FischFry on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:24:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Change (0+ / 0-)

        Despite having mentioned below that I should have kept my mouth shut, rather than just making a quick judgment like that, I have to say that my comment would have been more appropriately directed at you in the first place.

        You make assumptions that I haven't ever ran for office, and even if I haven't, you have no idea what I do to help bring about change. Yet, you assume that I do nothing but sit in front of my keyboard typing epithets.

        Additionally, if you think that the politicians are doing the peoples business, and exerting appropriate resolve where needed, then by all means send them some more money, praise them far and wide, criticize others that see them as without spine, and tell your neighbors that you are happy with their service.

        But as for that holy attitude reflecting on what I may or may not be doing, I think you know where to put it.

    •  why don't you can that rhetoric! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tigerdog, astoundedstill, Kronos Blue

      i too feel we need to stop the degree of bullshit about our other candidates on here. not to say we shouldn't take them to task, however the diary person makes some very good points.

    •  How is it running away (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tigerdog, dus7, Got a Grip, Kronos Blue get one's news elsewhere?

      That supposes that DailyKos is the only place for news.

      It's a good place for news. And many othter things too.

      But the diarist choosing to get his news elsewhere is hardly running away, eh?

  •  Leaving (!) Kos, noooo. You'll miss Noweasels (7+ / 0-)

    Condoleaser, Bill in Portland Maine, Occam's Hatchet, and the unrivaled Hunter, who gave us the great ode, Rubla Rhan, that ancient ode to Sir Rudy of The Twin Towers, who doth quoth:

    "These funds may help the homeless, true,
    But does not my d*ck need shelter too?"

    This situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.

    by Cartoon Peril on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 09:58:56 PM PST

  •  Another one bites the dust - sorta? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DMiller, andgarden

    C'mon by after the primaries are over, or maybe wait until the Dems are in control of the 3 branches.  And then maybe when things are going swimmingly, we can all sit around the fire and sing?

    Seriously, just avoid the candidate diaries then.

    As far as everything else goes, nothing is EVER going to be 100% "right", and there will always be disagreement here. Unfortunately, some people go a bit overboard.  But that happens in real life too.

    Maybe it would help for you to chat with litigatormom?  She was at the edge too, but I've seen her around quite a bit after her "I've had enough" diary.  

    "I believe in the promise of America." ~ John Edwards '08

    by Terre on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 09:59:29 PM PST

  •  don't move an inch, god dammit! (6+ / 0-)

    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    relax, like a fat republican, and get back to work here tomorrow!

  •  I haven't read a "canditate diary" in months (7+ / 0-)

    and find I enjoy DKos just as much as ever. You just have to poke around a bit more to find something interesting. The other evening badger wrote "A Disturbing Diary" about copper mining. It was long and fascinating and exceptionally well-written. If you haven't read it, check it out.

    American Christians are becoming less of either

    by jayden on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:02:05 PM PST

  •  Please stay; you're one of the good guys! (4+ / 0-)

    Hey, Randy, as someone with whom I've had a tiny bit of positive banter, back and forth over the past few weeks, I'm really disappointed to see you cutting out.

    You really are one of the good guys around here!

    I hope to see you back, soon.

    And, yeah, for the record, I'm sick and tired of the Presidential, "my-candidate's-great-and-your-candidate-sucks" diaries on the Rec list, as well.


    "I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

    by bobswern on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:02:17 PM PST

  •  Pink Floyd - Goodbye Cruel World (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    opendna, mcfly, Pacifist, Jeff Y

    Goodbye, cruel world,
    Im leaving you today.
    Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.

    Goodbye all you people,
    Theres nothing you can say,
    To make me change my mind.

  •  I concur mostly (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dems2004, stodghie, Mber, astoundedstill

    I'll still be reading the front-page, but the diaries, particularly the rec list, have become well-nigh unbearable.

  •  I'll stay. (7+ / 0-)

    If you want me to post anything for you in the interim, let me know.

  •  Just take a break (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cosette, mango

    We all need to back away once in a while. It gets too intense. Step away from the puter for a bit...and then come back all refreshed and ready to bite the heads off Republicans. ;)

  •  You can be free (0+ / 0-)

    Come on, get out of here! Go!
    Come on, Willy!
    Come on, boy!
    Follow me to the breakwater!
    Go, Willy!
    Hurry, Willy!
    I'll miss you.
    Don't forget me, okay? I won't forget you.
    You can do it. You can be free.
    Now, do it. Do it!
    Come on, Willy. I know you can do it!
    I know you can jump this wall!
    I believe in you! You can do it!
    You could be free! Come on!
    You can jump it!
    Bye, Willy.
    I'll miss you.
    Hope I get to see you again.


    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:08:42 PM PST

  •  Hey Randy, long time no see your name here (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda, mango

    and say wha?? You're leaving?  Well, do what you must.  Yeah, the candidate diaries are a huge pain in the arse, but ignore them.  Cherry pick or come back in 6 weeks, as McJoan advises.  The vitriole gets toxic at times -- are most of these folks paid political elves charged with "seeding" blogs hither and yon?  It's not making one ounce of difference with most people on this site, I suspect. But I like reading Meteor Blades on the Bali conference, Bondad and Jerome on financial stuff, eco diaries, etc., so I haven't gone away despite the frustrating decline of discourse at times.  

  •  Understandable. (8+ / 0-)

    And I have the perfect picture for it (which I hope will not make you feel like I'm mocking you but will make you laugh instead):
    Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

    I'm not ready to GBCW but I'm seriously cutting down on the time I spend here.  I hope we can both come back once the primaries are over and find room for us here once again.

    "If life has no purpose, if it's been given us for its own sake, we have no reason for living." -Tolstoy

    by tryptamine on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:14:58 PM PST

  •  The Primary Fields of DKos (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mango, crose

    Have driven many away.  Hope to see you back in a couple of months when we can finally unite and turn our venom on the real enemy instead of ourselves.  If one things for certain, we have definitely perfected the circular firing squad formation.

    2006: The year the Donkey went Rocky on the Pachyderm

    by marcvstraianvs on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:19:24 PM PST

  •  Wait for one more Anti-Hillary/Anti Obama diary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Just one more pleaseeeeeee.  

    I guess I am used to politics of 2007.  Things aren't friendly until May 1st then we are all on board. Look at the support Mr. Playboy Party got last year and we all know how bad he is.

    Hope you come back to Kos soon. There will be way to much fun here in 2008. Especially the diary to decide if the DNC is less filling or tastes great.

  •  You'll be missed. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DMiller, Panda

    Maybe things here will be better after February.  See you around the blogosphere, meantime.

  •  Honestly... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    stodghie, DMiller

    I cannot WAIT for the primaries to be over, just so I can resume recommending this site to friends of mine.  Nowadays, I don't tell people to check this site out, because a slim majority of all the front page diaries and recommend list are tantamount to "Elected Democrats/Candidate X Suck!"  

    Sharsh(TM), why would I want anybody to come see that?

    "'Shit' is the tofu of cursing" --David Sedaris

    by LiberalVirginian on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:26:15 PM PST

  •  RandySF, we've never intersected but I know (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda, mango, TruthOfAngels

    you a little bit from your comments. I do lurk on the
    candidate diaries, and, though they make my head explode,
    I guess lurking is enough of a protective device that I can stay,
    though commenting less these days. This part

    Sometimes I even think there are people who hope we lose next year just to prove their point.

    seems more true on some other blogs than here, but I get what you mean.

    Fare thee well. And I mean that and hope it changes after the primaries.

    Everything is possible

    by begone on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:28:06 PM PST

  •  Why read the diaries you don't like? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Meteor Blades, cosette, Panda, KingCranky

    There are plenty of others to enjoy.

    Test your vocabulary and win some Free Rice.

    by ybruti on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:33:51 PM PST

  •  Well, Randy, if you didn't dump Obama so fast (0+ / 0-)

    you'd be feeling better. See you in a few weeks -- you're a good one and I always enjoy reading your diaries.

    "The struggle of humanity against power, is the struggle of memory against forgetting." -- Milan Kundera

    by LV Pol Girl on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:44:45 PM PST

  •  I say this to my husband every night. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    diplomatic, Panda, tigerdog, CooperCraigM

    I've learned to pick and choose what I read now, but I still get sucked into nasty comment threads from time to time.

    "We are in a defining moment in our history. Our nation is at war. The planet is in peril." Barack Obama, Nov.10, 2007

    by keeplaughing on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:48:39 PM PST

  •  Someone said, I don't remember who (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Politics ain't beanbag.

    It's always be true, and it will always be so.

  •  D.C. Dems are a disgrace (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dems2004, Panda

    I lost faith in this party when the "leadership" caved in on FISA in August. I'll vote for the Democratic ticket next November, but I see no reason to invest a dime of my money or a minute of my time to either the national or state party organization--there's no return on investment. My time and talent will go to causes I believe in.

    "I'll rant as well as thou."--Hamlet, Act V, Scene 1.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:57:18 PM PST

  •  I know what you mean (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    i've "downgraded" my experience here just in the last few months.  There are fewer and fewer diaries on the Rec list that matter.

    I think the Edwards people have proven that it is possible to "dominate" a blog if you register enough users and coordinate their efforts.  

    After the election, perhaps things will change.  Perhaps not.  As you say, there are other "more adult" Prog/Dem blogs out there.

  •  It can get tiresome (0+ / 0-)

    I'm not committed to a candidate as I was in 2004 (Kerry), so it's a lot different this time....

  •  I just hate (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dems2004, Panda, begone

    these GBCW diaries.  I feel like I'm losing friends, because other friends simply can't stay civil.

    I'm really sorry that you feel you have to go Randy.  I hope you come back after primary season is over.

    Best wishes.

  •  I've pulled the plug many times (7+ / 0-)

    for exactly the same reasons as you. The problem for me is that there are few other blogs out there with the kind of social interaction this one does. I tend to read TPM, for instance, and then run over here to see if someone's posted a diary about it so I can "talk" about it with somebody.....hoping there are at least one or two people who see things the way I do. There are fewer and fewer every day, though, so I come here much much less.  You've been one of those more sane people for me, so....

    My candidate was virgin-born out of an apple pie left to cool in the shade of an American flag. - Hunter

    by Buffalo Girl on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:15:33 PM PST

  •  Will miss you posting as RandyMI or RandySF (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Panda, begone

    Great diaries on races that are timely and topical.
    Shoot. I'm bummed.
    Come back soon?

    Why have GHWB, GWB and the Unification Church bought 1.729 Million Acres in Paraguay since 2000?

    by cosette on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:23:55 PM PST

  •  Thanks for the diary, RandySF. (5+ / 0-)

    I frequently have the same resentment of the mudslinging that happens here that you've outlined. Rather than permanently moving on though, I recommend that you take a break for until after our nominee has been selected. Once that happens, I'm hoping you'll see a lot less of what you've objected to, and will see the Evil Eye turned away from the competing candidate's supporters and toward the Republican's choice.

    If that doesn't happen, I'll follow you out.

    The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

    by Pacifist on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:31:02 PM PST

  •  Will read you at Calitics, I presume. /nt (0+ / 0-)

    qui pro domina reductio ad absurdum

    by opendna on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:12:33 AM PST

  •  scanned your diaries (0+ / 0-)

    you are ahead of the curve - not enough peers
    there is alot of ( as you say ) like-dislike;
    happy-sad; yes-no; conversations and infighting; you are an analyst; there are many things people on the left leave unsaid though because the opposition already knows too muchthey study up on everything recorded on the internet;

    so I guess you need to do some real work in your areas of interest power/political where your ideas have in-house traction and that information is secure with the group that has a long term mission;

    too much stuff is given away at progressive blogs; we don't have enough think-tanks; or real other real (not virtual) political grassroots in state positions where we can w-o-r-k our bright minds ;

    we are not moving into the 'democrats' or 'independents' or 'green' or state, local infrastructure - - not enough places to graduate to to earn political credentials and full time income;

    you seem to be a real democracy with a small 'd' individual; you need useful outlet where you can develop power individually;

    collectively internet groups are so good at amplifiying the decimal of their collective voice and getting information distributed quickly;

    I don't think you outgrew the blog so much as you need to get more of what you really need ( as do alot of other power/political aspiring folks ) a place to put your ideas and talent to work;

    Apparently a criminal with unlimited funds is a genius these days. - Larisa Alexandrovna

    by pollwatch on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 01:01:01 AM PST

  •  My country right or wrong? (0+ / 0-)

    Or, may she always be right.

    My party right or wrong?

    Or, may she always be right.

    Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinions so "right" is largely, but not always, in the eye of the beholder.  What is not fairly debatable is that Democrats need to know their own candidates strengths and weaknesses before we send them off to be swift boated in a general election. We need to know which of our candidates will find broad support among Democrats and independents and which, if elected, will be no better than the Republicans they replace, if elected.  Our candidates need to prove they can take it and rise above it unlike some of our previous ones, with cv's suggesting courage that seemed to disappear when the Republicans took after them.

    Sorry, but we also need to see who is selling out to get elected. We may decide to be nicey nice, but don't think for a nano second that big oil, big pharma and other corporate conglomerates are so constrained.  I have no interest in helping Democrats who are no better than Republicans, particularly because I know that a strong, forceful progressive can win a general election against special interest Republicans.

    This view is particularly important in light of the history of political parties in the United States as they have continually morphed into something else, usually changing sides on the kinds of issues that bring people in or push people out. Lincoln, lest we forget, was a Republican as was Teddy Roosevelt (who busted the trusts, pushed the break up of Standard Oil of New Jersey) and built a national park system saving critical public lands (he had his warts too, of course).  Democrats between WW'S I and II wanted to arm America to deal with the threat of Germany and Japan.  Republicans did not want to spend a dime on a standing army or navy. John Kennney was a tax cutter whose election theme of a "missle gap" with the Soviets allowed him to squeak by the ultra liberal taxachusetts labels.  Eisenhower left office with two warnings that the Nation failed to hear:  a military industrial complex was forming that could take over our country and a Nation with the power we then possessed must treat all of the Nations of the world with respect as if they were as powerful as us. This advice from a Republcan.

    Democrats in Congress overwhelmingly opposed the first Gulf War, to oppose Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, and then overwhelming supported our invasion of Iraq which everyone in the world knows was for Exxon and Shell. Two wrongs do not make a right.  

    You can tune out and be a loyal Democrat once the rest of us finish duking it out selecting your candidate.  Or you can mix it up in the primaries as Will Rogers would have us do to find candidates whose character, ideas, communication skills and associations have proved battle tested.

    We should also find out how many among us are thoroughly disgusted with one candidate or another.  In my case, for example (stop reading here), I will not support Hilary Clinton, period, because I believe she has aligned herself with the international corporate interests whose agenda I reject.  Nor would I ever vote for another Clinton or Bush under any circumstances as a nation of 300 million should have more than two families controlling its most powerful elected office.

    Don't you think Democrats should know there are people like me, who have long supported progressive ideals who share that view?  Before we venture off to fight Republicans.

    Don't you find it odd that the Republicans are having difficulty raising money this cycle while some of our candidates seem to have no such problem?  Do you not find it odd that we espouse the ideal of publicly financed campaigns and then turn our noses up at a candidate who opts to participate in the program we urged Congress to adopt? Do you know why hedge fund managers, whose incomes are often more than hundreds of millions a year have tax rates limited to 15% when office workers pay taxes at rates twice that? Where are our Democrats on issues like this?

    On my part, I don't want to find out that my party switched sides under my nose by reading about it years later in a history text.

    So, while I applaud your commitment to Democratic ideals, I regret that you will opt out of making sure they are worth fighting for.

  •  I know how you feel (0+ / 0-)

    and then some, as I'm something of a misfit here. I'm an American who lives half a world away now -- been here many years. I actually looked today at the vote from overseas site and didn't pursue the form.

    Like, should I register from the state I was born in, or places I lived, like Kentucky, Ohio, Virginia, Rhode Island?

    Last time I was back, in Florida again for four months while my 87-y.o. mother died in a nursing home from misfeasance and malfeasance. But that's another story.

    I see a lot of nastiness here too, and sometimes rampant ideology. Certainly the Dubya years have exacerbated strong feelings but ... every time I see an "All X is Y" proposition, it turns me off. Like, All Republicans are evil, always were, they came from the Hellmouth to ruin everything. And yet some of the people who take such a position will even quote the first Republican laudingly. Weird.

    And there are some who carry the Progressive Exceptionalism to excess. Anyone who is 'not our kind' is beneath contempt. Examples in diaries include libertarians, 'so-called' (sic) independents, 'Naderites', and those so despondent they probably won't vote at all.

    For instance, most libertarians have certain principles that would fit in here: anti-war, immigration, and so on. Other aspects that would be anathema here. And yet! many could well vote for the chosen Democratic candidate, whoever. But harangue them on other issues and you may have lost a potential vote for your side. Same process with the independents, third party candidate advocates, etc.

    I spend more time on liberal sites and alternative news areas than I ever have the stomach to put in on R blogs. If I wanted to see raptors attacking helpless prey, I'd watch "Jurassic Park" again -- seeing a cheering squad for war, war, more war, doesn't cut it. Erk.

    Maybe I haven't spent enough time watching R's. But what little exposure I've had (hopefully immune) leads me to believe no group can cut itself up better than D's.

    My D preference is an outside chance. :-)

    What is past, is prologue

    by US2oz on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 02:50:43 AM PST

  •  If you can't stand the heat (0+ / 0-)

    then get out of the kitching (j/k)...

    But it is election season and this type of venomous sniping is, unfortunatly, to be expected.  I expect everything will get back to normal 2-3 weeks after the nominee is decided and we all get out our last few bitches.

  •  I know what you mean (0+ / 0-)

    Could you recommend other blogs?

  •  Sorry (0+ / 0-)

    to see you go. You're right, of course. But, politics has never been a very pleasant business. Regardless of what side you're on.

    Hope your time off goes well.

    Common Sense is not Common

    by RustyBrown on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 05:44:47 AM PST

  •  RandySF (0+ / 0-)
    You're always welcome at West Virginia Blue although sometimes I get mad at Senator Rockefeller.

    "There is nothing more stimulating than a case where everything goes against you." S.H.

    by Carnacki on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 04:51:09 PM PST

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