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[From the Frog Pond]

As far as I can tell, Senator Reid is preparing to ignore Senator Dodd's 'hold' on any FISA bill that includes telecommunications corporations' immunity.  He will introduce the Intelligence Committee's bill that includes immunity and then 'automatically substitute' the Judiciary Committee's version that does not include immunity.  This is intended to trick you and me into believing that Dodd's 'hold' is being respected.  The Senate will then debate the  Judiciary bill and amendments to that bill.

If we succeed in defeating any and all amendments that seek to introduce immunity, the bill will go to a final vote (obviously preceded by a vote on cloture to cut off debate).  At this point the Republicans may refuse to invoke cloture.  If they do, the bill will probably be pulled and the Senate will move on to other things.  But if the Republicans are smart, they will vote to invoke cloture.  The Senate will then proceed to a vote.  Perhaps the Democrats will remain united, and the FISA bill without immunity will pass.  But then we'll hit an improvised explosive device.  The Senate will then have to vote to approve the just passed Judiciary version of the bill as the substitute for the underlying base bill...the Intelligence bill that provides for immunity.  If the Republicans can defeat the substitution, then the bill will revert to the Intelligence version of the bill.

Why does this matter?

The key here is to give us the advantage.  If we do this right, we can introduce a bill without immunity and it will be a choice of voting for that bill or getting nothing.  If we do it wrong, we will introduce a bill with immunity and have to filibuster it to prevent passage.  

If the base bill has no immunity, it will require sixty votes to introduce immunity.  If the base bill has immunity, it will require 41 votes (because of the filibuster rules) to keep it from passing.  Depending on how Reid introduces the bill, we can prevail with 41 votes, or fail because we cannot get 60.

The reason Reid is doing this in a way that requires 60 is because he wants to pass something.  And the only way he can pass something is to pass exactly what the president wants...which includes immunity.  So, he has decided to choose a path that will deceive us about whether or not he is honoring Senator Dodd's hold, and deceive us about whether he made a good faith effort to prevent immunity.

I am not happy to come to these conclusions, and the reality probably is that Harry Reid doesn't have the support within the caucus that he would need pursue a strategy of not passing a new FISA bill.  The law will sunset in February and too many within the caucus are afraid to let the law sunset.

Nevertheless, we are being set up to not recognize this capitulation for what it is.  And I am not happy about it.

Originally posted to www.boomantribune.com on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:10 PM PST.

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  •  Also (222+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    racerx, bink, Ed in Montana, zzyzx, Alfred E Newman, SteveLCo, pb, hester, Rayne, SarahLee, lipris, rhfactor, Dump Terry McAuliffe, Nina Katarina, mattman, Shockwave, LynChi, Hesiod, meg, cookiesandmilk, moira977, Luam, Carnacki, Heart of the Rockies, madhaus, PBCliberal, Dumbo, Gustogirl, Mooncat, Boston Boomer, bronte17, m00nchild, BlackGriffen, understandinglife, ask, quake, wanderindiana, cosmic debris, buckhorn okie, roses, Ignacio Magaloni, thingamabob, antirove, Boorad, TheKickingDonkey, kharma, BarbinMD, Moody Loner, mwk, Dr Colossus, paluxy1945, StuartZ, alivingston, cometman, niteskolar, GN1927, penguins4peace, annetteboardman, onemadson, lcrp, alizard, Dood Abides, Rxtr2, dkmich, Anne Hawley, shadowplayer, Hillbilly Dem, Man Eegee, Clzwld, CanYouBeAngryAndStillDream, Steven D, kd texan, boran2, Timroff, gsbadj, environmentalist, greenskeeper, joanneleon, chumley, humphrey, Bluesee, radarlady, farleftcoast, 3goldens, Treg, jrooth, DianeNYS, Alexander G Rubio, Jeffersonian Democrat, Five of Diamonds, JanetT in MD, ek hornbeck, LostInTexas, ignorant bystander, PBen, corvo, ejmw, Alice Venturi, panicbean, clammyc, Simplify, truong son traveler, ChemBob, stitchmd, Ranting Roland, ratzo, teknofyl, Sharon in MD, concerned, jimreyn, GreyHawk, docstymie, RichterScale, AnotherMassachusettsLiberal, wulidancer, NewCon06, FightTheFuture, wiscmass, LithiumCola, Flippant, JanL, Ekaterin, occams hatchet, kovie, Showman, Major Danby, MissInformation, methodishca, chicagoblueohio, highfive, vigilant meerkat, DrSpalding, victoria2dc, KenBee, greenearth, MJ via Chicago, StrayCat, Glorfindel, Rachel in Vista, imabluemerkin, condoleaser, real world chick, FireCrow, joe shikspack, NearlyNormal, BalkanID, CTLiberal, bleeding heart, el cid, Helpless, rage, profh, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, means are the ends, Carbide Bit, Jbeaudill, kurious, FMArouet, duha, AndrewOG, Opposite Reaction, NonnyO, One Pissed Off Liberal, dotdot, Fredly, blue armadillo, godislove, ricsec7, moosely2006, yoduuuh do or do not, Outrider, FishOutofWater, lynmar, Duccio, yowsta, Matt Z, flumptytail, Jimdotz, Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle, DWG, gatorbot, todd in salt lake, malharden, ca democrat, TheCorkBoard, Moderation, MadAsHellMaddie, leonard145b, ImpeachKingBushII, MichiganGirl, Terra Mystica, TomP, rmonroe, crystaljim, MKinTN, RickMassimo, kimoconnor, Phil N DeBlanc, Brandon Friedman, skohayes, beltane, LucyMO, peaceloveandkucinich, protectedmode, MrJayTee, dewley notid, Wek, kyril, HenryVane, luckylizard, gaiilonfong, DixieDishrag, little liberal, BlueGenes, MantisOahu, HoosierDeb, toom, PeckingOrder, watercarrier4diogenes, Chad Michaels, arainsb123, RenMin

    available in green.

      •  But what is the WHY behind the why Reid is behavi (24+ / 0-)

        The reason Reid is doing this in a way that requires 60 is because he wants to pass something.

        For whose sake? For the perception that this pathetic Dem Congress did something? If so, who is that perception aimed at? Swing voters? The Pelosi/Reid Behavior since acquiring power has been, ostensibly, all about '08 election victory, and their fundamental view that in order to win, Americans must perceive the Dems as non-obstructionist, NON tit-for-tat (i.e. getting back at Reps for Clinton's impeachment), thus no impeachment, no teeth on any and all Congressional investigations to "drain the swamp" and end the "culture of corruption" -- big campaign themes and their prized buzzwords...

        ... with the other two even less-meaningful '06 buzz phrases: "A New Direction in Iraq" and challenge the "Rubber Stamp Republicans" who have Bush every single thing he wanted - regardless of merit or absurdity.

        But as we've all followed for months and months, America has no faith in this Congress. Ergo, who is Reid's perception for?

        Their validation for impeachment off the table and no prosecution of Contempt of Congress violations has been "People want a Congress who DOES things" (vs perceived as just bickering with the other party).

        But I just don't get it. Any Communications or Marketing 101 student would grasp that if you want to reach your target market, you better induce them by offering them the things that they want or need. So I ask in all earnestness, who is Reid trying to please with

        because he wants to pass something.

        ??

        And the only way he can pass something is to pass exactly what the president wants...which includes immunity.

        Once again, in who's service is harry acting? Forget his stated objectives, what are his underlying objectives? ARe they in sync with Pelosi's? With that of any of the Presidential candidates? In other words, wtf?

        So, he has decided to choose a path that will deceive us about whether or not he is honoring Senator Dodd's hold, and deceive us about whether he made a good faith effort to prevent immunity.

        I don't believe Reid's legacy will include one achievement that any of us would feel proud of or even lukewarm in getting behind. Why is he the Dem Senate Leader again?

        ______________
        -----> My latest vlog entry: on getting a webcam

        by rhfactor on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:51:59 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  hey rh, how goes it? (10+ / 0-)

          my thought to the above is that the conservative base that provides cover for republican politicians' true agendas ALSO provide cover for democratic politicians' true agendas.

          I think the right questions are being asked about how we can bring about a change in leadership, and that is our only option at this point.  harry reid's true agenda is about 35% dirty business.  he is like the godfather who takes care of his own and symbolizes a benevolent figure to those who are powerless and don't know too much, but in actuality has entrenched his power by winning in a game of crime.  the continuation of his power depends on his support of "criminal enterprises" and their success in this metaphor, if not in reality.

          what is that agenda exactly?  I think we'd be more likely to find out if we were actively looking for it.

          •  I believe he is criminal in intent and in deed (11+ / 0-)

            and I don't trust him and never have.

            He could have played a nice role in The Godfather series -- providing cover at all the appropriate moments.

            This is not a "flip" for me. Something about him has been disingenuous since Day 1 of his taking over from Daschle. Again, I do not understand who voted for him and why.

            what is that agenda exactly?  I think we'd be more likely to find out if we were actively looking for it.

            Well he's quite clever there too, isn;'t he? Who's going to look inot Harry's dirty laundry when there are about 20 candidates running for President in America right now -- who all have dirty laundry to examine.

            He's a sly fox all right. Just not on our side. But if a secret straw poll were taken today, by privately going around to every Democratic Senator's office in DC, I wonder what the list would look like:

            1. Those who truly think he's doing quite an admirable job given the slim majority.
            1. Those who say that but who really back him because of what they get out of it.
            1. Those who are just shocked by his leadership (lack therof) but are too timid and career-minded to rock the boat.
            1. Those who would vote him out in a NY minute.

            I doubt there would be many names on List #4. Maybe Kennedy. maybe Russ Feingold would favor someone else. But I wouldn't even be able to put Leahy's name on that list, for god only knows where he stands ultimately on anything. A good man, with good intentions, and good orator and good letter-writer, but who's to say what's driving him now. I could not even put my own Senator Boxer on that List.

            This is why I ask: who wants this guy as Leader- and why?

            ______________
            -----> My latest vlog entry: on getting a webcam

            by rhfactor on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:43:33 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  well, and what is the agenda (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mattman, farleftcoast, corvo

              of a Majority Leader--do they come up with their own agendas, evaluate themselves by their own metrics?

              In business it's easy to understand how you will be evaluated and who you are responsible for servicing.

              In politics, it's convoluted.  I'm sure every Majority Leader has had a different agenda, and they have plenty leeway to determine it themselves.  So, what is Harry's?

              I don't know if many Senators would have very strong feelings about any Majority Leader--everyone is cushioned from consequences due to legislation that is either passed or not passed.

              No consequences, no discomfort, no real issues here.

              We need to start holding them accountable in a different way altogether--holding them responsible for their results has proved to be ineffective.

              So, a few next questions:

              1. How do we hold them accountable for their strategy or lack thereof, rewarding or punishing as appropriate?
              1. How do we push changes in the leadership structure as necessary?
              •  "cushioned from consequences" (11+ / 0-)

                That's either the name of a great new noel, or a game show, not sure which.

                as for wu ming's comment...

                reid and the dem leadership generally agrees with what they help pass. much less mental contortion required to explain it.

                Okay, I her ya. I was temporarily blinded from the obvious. So the answers  are lobbyist money and we agree with Bush's policies and requests.

                Then there is thereisnospoon's thesis: that Dems are competent cynical manipulators who see electoral advantage for themselves by keeping the electorate angry at obstructionist Republicans and an overall NO CHANGE in course -- despite the voters in 06 having agreed with Nancy And Harry's "A New Direction" mantra. It's a good thesis.

                ______________
                -----> My latest vlog entry: on getting a webcam

                by rhfactor on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 01:14:35 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  well said (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  rhfactor, corvo, luckylizard

                  Then there is thereisnospoon's thesis: that Dems are competent cynical manipulators who see electoral advantage for themselves by keeping the electorate angry at obstructionist Republicans and an overall NO CHANGE in course -- despite the voters in 06 having agreed with Nancy And Harry's "A New Direction" mantra. It's a good thesis.

                     To me the best explanation of those times you just go :'What?'
                  It also seeks to maximize a hand where they truly don't have the party discipline to stand up together to pass better legislation, impeach, and otherwisedo the right thing.
                   It could be titled the lemons/lemonade theory.

                  Two things seem apparent here:
                  *can't impeach and convict without burning a lot of political capital
                  *can't pass any significant legislation, also because the numbers and discipline aren't there....oh yeah, don't forget an obstructionist pResident and minority, as well as the Blue Dogs,clueless, and insane.
                        so this strategy is what's left...it's dam hard to describe well however, and describe convincingly.
                       Why bother? Hell if I know. Except to explain the mystery.

                  "Democrats should have no truck with the rancid anti-Americanism of the conspiracy-mongering left." The DLC

                  by KenBee on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 02:56:01 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  the mystery is well out of your hands to even (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    farleftcoast, corvo, dewley notid

                    hazard a guess, my friend.

                    Mysteries are best left to the providence of Our Lord, or in some cases Van Morrison. But the latter requires entering the slipstream, which can be treacherous if timed improperly.

                    Why not just go with your truthiness gut?

                    the Blue Dogs, clueless, and insane.

                    ______________
                    -----> My latest vlog entry: on getting a webcam

                    by rhfactor on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 03:24:09 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  The point of the thereisnospoon diary (8+ / 0-)

                    which I think was lost on a lot of people, was not to say "this is the Democrat's strategy" as in, don't worry people, they've got things under control, it was "this is the Democrat's strategy" as in, they should all be f-ing ashamed of themselves for pursuing such a horribly misguided and cynical strategy that might just not have the effects they desire.

                    Thereisnospoon merely defined the strategy as a means to understand the motiviations of the Democrats when they do really, really stupid stuff like this.  It was most certainly not to justify their actions and in fact, quite the contrary.

                    Here's the diary:

                    Click Here

                    •  are you kidding me? you think i MISSED that? (0+ / 0-)

                      you think I listed it as viable and ethical strategy? (sheesh!) I comment that he's got a good thesis -- as in -- explaining what is driving their unethical and shameful behavior. So, we're absolutely on the same page.

                      ______________
                      -----> My latest vlog entry: on getting a webcam

                      by rhfactor on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 08:15:03 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  I got the point of the diary (0+ / 0-)

                      I just think Occam's Razor cuts it to shreds.

                      Two possibilities:

                      1. Reid & Pelosi are passing everything Bush wants them to pass, and nothing he doesn't, because they are pursuing a convoluted & likely unsuccessful electoral strategy.
                      1. They're doing it because they want to pass the same things Bush wants to pass.

                      #2 has a good deal louder ring of truth, wouldn't you say?  It means the Dems are neither stupid, nor Machiavellian, just lying about their motives.

                      As for why they'd be so ardent to get telco legislation passed -- what were AT&T's earnings last year?  I rest my case.

                      Mission Accomplished: The ultimate in premature ejaculations.

                      by stillnotking on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 10:30:46 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

            •  Who Voted for Reid and Why (6+ / 0-)

              The vast majority of Senate Democrats voted for Reid's leadership and continue to support Reid's leaderhip.

              And they did so, and do so, because they approve of Reid's leadership.

              The problem isn't the leadership of the Democratic Party.

              The problem is the Democratic Party.

              This nicely summarizes what's wrong with American political life today. (Source)

              by GreenSooner on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 04:05:55 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  complicity (16+ / 0-)

          easy explanation, reid and the dem leadership generally agrees with what they help pass.

          much less mental contortion required to explain it.

          surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

          by wu ming on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:52:25 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  what's behind Reid's behavior...? (6+ / 0-)

          It could be as simple as the fact that he supports the Bush agenda.

          Patriotism lies not in blind obedience to authority, but in the desire to search for the truth. - Ramman Kenoun

          by truong son traveler on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 06:38:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Clearer mud than the mud (8+ / 0-)

        you started with, anyway.

        I imagine eventually some of us will learn congressional procedure just like some of us learned campaign-related stuff, but damn it makes my head spin now.

      •  Please Recommend This Diary UP (8+ / 0-)

        So it stays up all day.  It's important and very timely.

        Thanks.

        You can't always tell the truth because you don't always know the truth - but you can ALWAYS be honest.

        by mattman on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 01:31:37 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Reid should step the f**k down (38+ / 0-)

    He's either an incompetent or a coward. Perhaps both. He's every bit as awful as Tom (Mr. Pre-emptive Concessions) Daschle, and will be judged every bit as harshly by history.

    "I'll rant as well as thou."--Hamlet, Act V, Scene 1.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:17:49 PM PST

    •  Mary Landrieu could do his job just as good! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rhfactor, corvo, GreyHawk
    •  I believe he's neither. (52+ / 0-)

      I've come to the realization that I can't keep telling myself:

      Oh, it's because they're so incompetent... They're just so stupid and they don't know any better.

      OR:

      Oh, they're just cowards... They're spineless little cravenly cowards and they're afraid to stand up for what's right.

      I've stopped deluding myself.

      It's NO accident. It's happened too many times for it to be an accident. It's not fear. They're getting attacked more for NOT opposing the repubs.

      It's neither. They pull this kind of bullshit because this is truly what they want. THIS is truly the direction they want our country going in...

      And I DARE them to prove me wrong. I BEG that they will prove me wrong. I LONG for the day I get to post a mea culpa diary begging for forgiveness for my lack of faith.

      PLEASE let them prove me wrong.... and until or if that day comes, I'm just going to assume that I'm right.

      "It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion." Oscar Wilde, 1891

      by MichiganGirl on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:31:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is why (16+ / 0-)

        I'm defining my political identity as post Democrat.  I don't know where that takes me yet ... in our contemporary political system it doesn't offer me or many other Americans much at all.

        Question authoritarianism.

        by m00nchild on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:27:10 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  understood (8+ / 0-)

          though when low-information voters follow you out of the Democratic Party, it'll be ex-Democrat.

          However, the Democratic Party is going to have to win in 2008 in order to self-destruct.

          When Democrats win and promise political change and don't deliver for anyone but K Street, no amount of campaign funding from K Street is going to make the pain of the middle class go away.

          Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

          by alizard on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 02:00:43 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hmm... that'd be nice (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            victoria2dc, LucyMO

            But personally I doubt that anything short of total electoral destruction is going to restructure the Democratic party.

            New Deal progressivism got derailed in the '60s and '70s, starting with the war in Vietnam and peaking with McGovern's disastrous loss to Nixon in '72.  Too many people in the party drew the wrong conclusions from that defeat; the Dems moved rightward, ultimately leading to DLC types taking control.

            The only thing that's going to reverse that, IMO, is a resounding defeat for centrist/triangulator/big-business Democrat thinking.  That means either Hillary getting the nomination and getting badly beaten by the Republican, or a genuine progressive getting the nomination and then stomping the Republican.

            Since neither one of those scenarios is at all likely, I'm pretty depressed about the next eight years.

            Mission Accomplished: The ultimate in premature ejaculations.

            by stillnotking on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 10:39:09 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  8 years? (0+ / 0-)

              If you truly believe that, the only personal strategy that's consistent with this is "every man for himself"... stop wasting time here (other than using this site as a news aggregator) and start thinking very seriously about what kind of future you can make for you and your family.

              You either need to figure out how to deal with living in a nation that's going to become a failed state or start country shopping right now, at least in terms of getting your kids if you've got any into a nation with a future.

              It may already be too late for America. In 8 years, it will certainly be too late to do anything but deal with the consequences of American inability to govern itself.

              Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

              by alizard on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 03:32:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  Is it time (3+ / 0-)

          for Kossacks, regular leftists to bolt the party, and start a new outfit?  It would be kind of funny to see what happened to the Democratic Party if the rug got pulled from under them.  We are the only thing that makes the party go.  

          NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed, but by lawful judgment of his Peers

          by aztecraingod on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:45:37 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  incompetently corrupt. cheney & milken are great (7+ / 0-)

        examples of competently corrupt

        they stole or are stealign hundreds of millions or billions, AND

        they got away with it or are getting away with it.

        (don't tell me about milken paying a 650 million dollar fine - the guy did a year or two in club fed and came out rich!)

        a few years ago I would pick up troll ratings by calling the fucker politically incompetent, which was the most polite thing I could say about the sell out son of a bitch.

        rmm.

        Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous

        by seabos84 on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 02:52:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  MichiganGirl... unfortunately you are right! (0+ / 0-)

        Reid/Pelosi, if not criminals themselves, are standing idly by as they take our rights away.  One more shread of the Constitution of the United States... every day. You will not be proven wrong.

    •  There is something more planned in Reid's behavio (6+ / 0-)

      ... I couldn't stand Tom Daschle's "Pre-emptive Concessions"... but at the end of the day, at the very least the guy SEEMED to care about liberal or Democratic or progressive principles. Reid does not.

      People so wanted to believe in the "Soft Spoken Harry" myth right at the get go. But I recall warnings from the very start that this guy was no liberal or moderate. I just don't remember who said what about him back then. And I also don't understand who voted him inot that role?

      There is a track record so devastatingly bad created by Reid and Pelosi that I have lost any ability to understand whose bidding they are doing. Okay, the overall Corporatist agenda, which is actually pretty non-partisan, or rather, I should say, equi-partisan, hedging all bets to achieve highest returns on investment in bribe/lobbying money.

      But why does the Party go along with it?

      As a final aside that seems to have lost all meaning and potency, Reid and Pelosi are clearly the Anti-Deans. And no question Dean cannot stand either of them nor their underlying objectives of protecting someone's status quo.

      I would love to be a fly on the wall in Dean's offices. I have no doubt about what he thinks about all of this sham. But I have no idea if he has, behind the scenes, been quietly setting up party apparatus that corrects these fatal abuses, or if, dare I say it, he has thrownm in the towel as well -- though will still herald the 50 state strategy and the farm team strategy of run for dog-catcher then mayor then Congress, then become a progressive majority, then take back the party, then takle back the country. All of that looks like a distant dream to me now, with the coordinated behaviors of reid & Pelosi. I might as well use Hannity-style language: To me they are both traitors and as such should be taken out and shot. Or at least convicted and ousted, whatever the rule of law actually says about traitors.

      ______________
      -----> My latest vlog entry: on getting a webcam

      by rhfactor on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:04:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Answer this please... (0+ / 0-)

        But why does the Party go along with it?

        As a final aside that seems to have lost all meaning and potency, Reid and Pelosi are clearly the Anti-Deans. And no question Dean cannot stand either of them nor their underlying objectives of protecting someone's status quo.

        (1) Who is the Party?  

        (2) Who is the ultimate entity responsible for Harry and Nancy?  Are they supposed to be checking in with Howard Dean, or is his position in the DNC just totally passive? Can he/would he help us out of this mess?  

        All of that looks like a distant dream to me now, with the coordinated behaviors of reid & Pelosi. I might as well use Hannity-style language: To me they are both traitors and as such should be taken out and shot. Or at least convicted and ousted, whatever the rule of law actually says about traitors.

        I agree with you.  They are traitors, but I am not one to just sit back and give up.  What can we do?  What is the action step we need to take?  That is the question because we don't have any power to force them to wake up!  However, I think we have to try calling and asking them to resign. What else is there?  How could we initiate action amongst the good senators (who are they/are there any of them we can trust?) to find out if they will oust Harry?

  •  Time to hang up the phones, America. (7+ / 0-)

    Fewer calls mean fewer falls...

    "You can't be neutral on a moving train." - Howard Zinn

    by bigchin on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:22:15 PM PST

    •  Please explain your comment... (0+ / 0-)

      Time to hang up the phones, America.Fewer calls mean fewer falls...

      I have no idea what that means.  I think we need to block Harry's communication system with so many calls that he hears us.  Remember when we did that a few months ago on this same bill?  He listened and backed down temporarily... and we knew this would happen again.

      Call people call. Don't give up! Jam his phone lines and make his staff work!

      Washington, DC
      528 Hart Senate Office Bldg
      Washington, DC 20510
      Phone: 202-224-3542
      Fax: 202-224-7327
      Toll Free for Nevadans:
      1-866-SEN-REID (736-7343)

      If the DC line gets too busy, call Las Vegas:

      Las Vegas
      Lloyd D. George Building
      333 Las Vegas Boulevard
      South, Suite 8016
      Las Vegas, NV 89101
      Phone: 702-388-5020
      Fax: 702-388-5030

      Call, call, call, call and don't stop until they go home for the weekend.  

    •  He's better at getting Bush's legislation passed (30+ / 0-)

      than Bill Frist was.

      Democrats who vote the wrong way on this bill MUST be punished viciously.

      BOYCOTT THE NEW YORK TIMES AND THE WASHINGTON POST! "The truth is there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?" ---"V"---

      by asskicking annie on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:06:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  do you know what bill that was (5+ / 0-)

      that some Republican put on "hold" for months anonymously?  How was that allowed to "stick" for so long and now Harry decides to ignore Dodd?

      Anyone remember what I am trying to remember?  It was not that long ago....

      "Rarely in the history of the law have so few undone so much so quickly" Justice Stephen Breyer - Supreme Court

      by MadAsHellMaddie on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 01:28:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Let's try James... (0+ / 0-)

      NOW can we make Reid step down?

    •  I just finished making calls & gathering thoughts (0+ / 0-)

      to find out about what, if anything, we can do about Reid and Pelosi.

      I just got off the phone with a bunch of DC people.  

      I called the DNC, based upon the information I got from the Senate Ethics and Rules Committees, which I’m reporting below.  Please call them and see if you can get more helpful information than I got!

      Then do this:

      Call the Democratic National Party

      http://www.democrats.org/...

      * Call 202-863-8000, which will be more effective than e-mailing.

      * Ask for Laurie in the Director’s Office.  Talk to her about your anger and your plea to Dr. Dean to do something about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.  Tell her that you are part of a 50,000 member activist movement that is ready to leave the party or do everything possible to push them out of their leadership positions, including going ballistic and putting the complaint out to the national media.  Let her know that we are desperate and that Dr. Dean is the only place left to go.

      * Give her your name and phone number

      * Ask her to report back after Dr. Dean gets the message.

      * Please don’t let her thank you for calling and hang up.  Ask her to let you know what Dr. Dean’s solution to the problem is.  

      After talking to Laurie, do this please:

      * Call your state Democratic Party and ask them to initiate a call to Laurie in the Director’s Office at the DNC.  Again, her number is 202-863-8000.  Ask them to call her to raise a complaint about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.

      Further action:

      I was told to call the Select Committee of Ethics for the US Senate at 202-224-2981, which I did of course.  

      I asked about rules pertaining to a citizen's right to call for the resignation of the Senate Majority Leader.  I also asked them if there was a rule or some procedure that allows a sitting senator to initiate action from within the US Senate to replace a sitting leader.  Again, it had to go back to the Ethics Committee, which we don’t have time for.

  •  Why are you surprised? (18+ / 0-)

    Democrats have been fractured...on purpose.  This is what I want to know.  When the Republicans were in charge, they abolished the seniority rule and awarded chairmanships to those who followed their party's  agenda.  What prevented Dems from doing the same thing?
    Rockefeller should be removed from his chairmanship.  

    •  Agreed... (0+ / 0-)

      When the Republicans were in charge, they abolished the seniority rule and awarded chairmanships to those who followed their party's  agenda.  What prevented Dems from doing the same thing?

      Rockefeller should be removed from his chairmanship.

       

      Has anyone called his office?  I admit that I haven't... but I will do it on Monday.

  •  WTF? (7+ / 0-)

    Why on earth are the rules for voting on a bill this convoluted? I can buy the cloture vote, motions to recommit, etc, but this appears to be convoluted beyond all reason for no reason. I mean, one of the A#1 rules of debate in this style of format is that you're only supposed to consider one question at a time. This makes it sound like they're "considering" both bills at the same time.

    That's annoying.

  •  Why does Reid have to abet it, though? (19+ / 0-)

    I am not happy to come to these conclusions, and the reality probably is that Harry Reid doesn't have the support within the caucus that he would need pursue a strategy of not passing a new FISA bill.

    What are the rules here?  Does Reid have to assist in this manuvering?

    It's not just that Reid is acknowledging what he can't prevent, he's actively engaging in sliding it under the radar, if you're correct.

    So either Reid has no choice about assisting the pro-FISA side of the caucus, or else you're being too kind, here.

    •  LithiumCola... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LithiumCola

      It's not just that Reid is acknowledging what he can't prevent, he's actively engaging in sliding it under the radar, if you're correct.

      So either Reid has no choice about assisting the pro-FISA side of the caucus, or else you're being too kind, here.

      Doesn't Reid set the agenda?  Isn't he responsible for what goes to the floor?  He doesn't have to vote on this bill until the time is right.  Has he used the media to slap down the adminstration?  I haven't seen any press conferences. Has he spoken out to the people?  I don't think so.

      So every day Too Much Cappuccino Perino is making Bush's points about the Democrats at the briefings, making us look really bad... while Bush is using the press to speak up and say whatever he wants to say.

      Where are the Dems?  They just keep quiet and Nancy comes out periodically to tell the world about children's health.  Did you notice that she shut up about the occupation of Iraq, or the so called war?  Did you notice that the ONLY thing she said about the torture was to protect herself and to try to blame it on Congresswoman Harman? What do you think about that?

  •  Awesome, BooMan. (23+ / 0-)

    Thanks for explanation. I was reading about the two different versions earlier because of the ACLU action alert on this, but I couldn't work out all of the twists and turns!

    ACLU from email alert today:

    Sadly, Senator Reid is asking senators to decide where they stand on spying after a secret meeting taking place today with Attorney General Mukasey and Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell, a day before voting is scheduled to take place. Director McConnell played a central role in negotiations around the Protect America Act and, acting on behalf of the White House, used questionable tactics and misinformation to convince members to eviscerate the Fourth Amendment.

    Because this meeting is secret, we obviously don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors. But if history is any guide, this meeting could be used to provide misleading information about the current threats facing America to scare your senators into continuing the Bush Administration’s secret spying free-for-all.

    ACLU Action Link makes it easy to contact your Senators on this.

    Seul l'incrédule a droit au miracle. - Elias Canetti Road2DC

    by srkp23 on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:53:46 PM PST

  •  Harry Reid is a fool (12+ / 0-)

    His incompetence is apparently boundless.  I despise the man.

    Question authoritarianism.

    by m00nchild on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 11:54:01 PM PST

  •  Impeach Reid! (8+ / 0-)

    Cause we're obviously not going to get any Republicans impeached, anytime soon.....

    -5.75 -4.72 3.14159 2.71828

    by xynz on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:02:48 AM PST

  •  Did Reid skip the class on early 1930's Germany? (9+ / 0-)

    I.e. the one that showed how, in a series of incremental steps, Germany was transformed from a nascent democracy into a totalitarian dictatorship as its weak and fearful parliament conceded one point after another to Hitler and the Nazis, which brazenly exploited patriotism and national defense as pretexts for this transformation. And we all know what followed.

    I'm not saying that we're turning into Nazi Germany, that Bush and Cheney are Hitler and Goering, and that the GOP is the Nazi party (although in previous comments I've stated that they're as close as we've ever come to these in this country, and I absolutely still stand by that). But does Reid really want to go down in history as they guy who made possible, here and now, a frighteningly close version of what happened there and then? Is this the legacy that he wants to be remembered by for all time? Because this is the exact opposite of how a patriot acts. And Reid should think long and hard before making this terrible, terrible mistake.

    And for what? To (MAYBE) get a couple more seats in '08, and please his and his fellow Dems' telcom donors? For these 40 lousy pieces of silver, he plans to bargain our constitution away?

    Think hard, Harry, before you take this fateful and possibly irreversible step. Think very hard. Because like every other illusory bargain that you and your fellow weak-kneed Democrats have struck with these people, not only won't it pay off, at all, but it will cost you, and the rest of us, in ways that you and we cannot possibly imagine. And it will be of your doing.

    Think hard, Harry.

    0101011101100101 010101000110100001100101 010100000110010101101111011100000110110001100101

    by kovie on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:53:32 AM PST

    •  Actually... (15+ / 0-)

      I think the Dems are going to either lose in '08 or be lucky to hang on to the slim majority we currently have in the Senate now... for the simple reason that there are no "frontrunner" Dems and Dem leaders who are willing to DO anything to stand up to Georgie and Dickie.  (Dennis Kucinich is the exception because he actually brought a bill for impeachment against Dickie to the floor of the House.  ONE candidate is willing to stand up for the Constitution and abide by what it says and he is declared "unelectable" because he's labeled a funny-looking short guy; that his brain actually works and he can speak clearly and concisely is ignored entirely.)

      Doing nothing for the sake of maintaining the status quo is a losing strategy.  Enabling Georgie and Dickie to continue their de facto dictatorship by repeatedly giving them and their corporate and PNAC buddies more power is a losing strategy.  Refusing to issue inherent contempt warrants (not just the simple contempt that has to be voted on, and may never be voted on before January '09, if ever) to those who have ignored subpoenas, and refusing to start impeachment proceedings is a losing strategy.

      As a student of history, I saw the parallels to the rise of Hitler with what's happening in this country a long time ago.  The masses of willfully ignorant people are drunk on keeping up with the Jonses and excessive consumerism (told to go shopping and carry on a normal life from the pile of rubble after 9/11; I still remember the speech and how profoundly embarrassed and shocked I was when Georgie said that), drunk on infotainment TeeVee (give the sheeple bread and circuses to distract them), and others are too busy working two or three jobs to make ends meet to pay attention to politics and politicians while Dickie and Georgie have quietly gotten Dems to cave on everything, issued executive orders and signing statements that make them de facto dictators already....

      We are one disaster away from martial law and cancelled elections and Georgie's formal declaration of dictatorial rule.

      Will anyone pay attention then...?

      (¯`*._(¯`*._(-IMPEACH-)_.*´¯)_.*´¯)

      by NonnyO on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 01:39:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  If some enabling event takes place (3+ / 0-)

        then all bets are off on what happens next year and beyond. But absent that, there's very, very little chance that Dems will lose either house, and have a slim advantage in taking the presidency. Voters are not happy with Dems, but they simply don't trust Pubs enough to put them back in office this soon. Political cycles usually take at least a decade to swing back the other way. This is precisely why Dems are so indifferent to the left. They know that they don't need it next year, and will almost certainly win big without it. The real payback won't start to come for another 3-5 years.

        Of course, if it does, there will always be great jobs on K Street for the lot of them.

        0101011101100101 010101000110100001100101 010100000110010101101111011100000110110001100101

        by kovie on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 02:22:40 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Have you checked out (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          farleftcoast, corvo, victoria2dc, NonnyO, mp

          Naomi Wolf's book, The End of America: Letters to a Young Patriot?
          She says we are one "disaster" away from martial law.
          She has documented the pattern that all regimes follow when taking over a functioning democracy.
          Chilling.

          Be the change you want to see in the world.

          by empathy on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 05:41:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes... and I agree with Naomi Wolf & Naomi Kline (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            empathy

            But the DC cocktail circuit has no clue.  They don't have time to read books. Hell, they are too busy listening to lobbyists and making back room deals with people like Attorney General Mukasey and Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell the day before voting is scheduled to take place, just like Harry Reid did yesterday.

          •  It's on my wait list at the library (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            empathy

            Along with Naomi Klein's book The Shock Doctrine. I've been reading a ton of books on the Bush years, all scary and disturbing. I'm not entirely convinced that if something happened and they tried to do this, that they'd succeed in turning the US into a permanent dictatorship, since there would be a lot of resistance and other complications. But it's definitely a looming threat, under certain conditions.

            0101011101100101 010101000110100001100101 010100000110010101101111011100000110110001100101

            by kovie on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 01:05:00 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Reid took the class (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      farleftcoast, kovie, victoria2dc

      and failed because of his paper praising the genius of von Papen.

      •  God help us from ineffectual members (0+ / 0-)

        of the opposition--especially when they're in the majority. Reid doesn't even appear to be trying. He's either thrown in the towel, or just doesn't care.

        If a Dem wins the presidency, they should apply pressure to have him replaced as leader. Appoint him Secretary of Towel Throwing is that's what it takes.

        0101011101100101 010101000110100001100101 010100000110010101101111011100000110110001100101

        by kovie on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 01:35:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, he cares all right. (0+ / 0-)

          He's working for their side.

          •  Not exactly (0+ / 0-)

            He's working for HIS side, as opposed to OUR side. And his side includes people from the other side, being the corporatist, M-I, imperialist side that has effectively run the country since the early 50's, with the failed Johnson and Carter admininistrations being the only brief breaks from that. This country might have two official parties, but only one real governing party. Reid might technically belong to one of the first two, but his real party is the latter one. As do most Dems and nearly all Pubs.

            Getting angry over this is almost besides the point. It is what it is and the only thing to do is try to change it from the outside.

            0101011101100101 010101000110100001100101 010100000110010101101111011100000110110001100101

            by kovie on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 05:34:50 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  of course he is (8+ / 0-)

    the fix has been in for quite some time.

    surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

    by wu ming on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 12:54:29 AM PST

  •  I remember shaking Reid's hand @YKos in Vegas... (15+ / 0-)

    I was so genuinely thrilled... he looked me in the eye and smiled and I thought I noticed a twinkle in his eye that said "trust me... I'm a fighter... and I'm on your side"...

    Now I realize that twinkle was saying "Ha! Another sucker betting on me with no clue I'll be taking a dive"...

    This could be the straw that breaks it for me... and I have no idea where to turn if it does...

    George W. Bush... wiretapping the Amish since 2001...

    by ThatSinger on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 01:11:49 AM PST

  •  Let's Start a Reid Retirement Fund...with leather (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, teknofyl, victoria2dc

    Includes some leathers, stiletto heels, and whip for his wife in the package so that why he can practice his self-deprecating masochism in the comfort of his home instead of in the Senate.

    Obama's "working across the aisle" is just another name for triangulation.

    by demwords on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 02:00:59 AM PST

  •  You shouldn't be happy about it (0+ / 0-)

    No one asked you to be happy about it.

  •  fuck reid. he has more value to fascists as a (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    farleftcoast, corvo, victoria2dc

    sell out than he has to us.

    rmm.

    Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look; He thinks too much: such men are dangerous

    by seabos84 on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 02:48:21 AM PST

  •  My respect for Reid is gone (7+ / 0-)

    I am profoundly disappointed in Reid.

    "If I can dream of a better land, where all my brothers walk hand in hand, tell me why can't my dream come true". - Elvis Presley

    by WI Dem on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 03:15:20 AM PST

  •  Reid NEEDS TO GO (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, farleftcoast, victoria2dc

    I am so over this spineless loser. If this happens we really need to start a campaign to get him out.
    These losers are dragging down the Democratic party, nevermind throwing progressives under the bus. Geeeezzzzzzzzz

    CondiLiar Rice, enabler and war criminal

    by gaiilonfong on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 03:30:55 AM PST

  •  Raise Hell (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    farleftcoast, victoria2dc, mp

    What can Sen Dodd do since it is his hold that Reid is ignoring? Can he raise hell about this without alienating all of his fellow Senators? Do all of the Democratic senators realize that if Reid will do this to Sen Dodd, he will do it to them? By circumventing Sen Dodd's hold, Reid has taken about half of the power that a Democratic US Senator has? Why will any of them stand for this? They should be pissed even if they do not agree with Sen Dodd?

    •  It was my (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alivingston, Dave925, farleftcoast, mp

      understanding that he interrupted his campaigning to fly back for his filibuster...of course, Reid has it so he filibusters over the weekend, come Monday they try for cloture again...argh!  The dem. pres. candidates said that they support the filibuster of FISA with immunity and they damn well better...

      •  CALL TO HONOR DODD'S HOLD, SUPPORT FILIBUSTER!!! (7+ / 0-)

        Numbers are from Christy at FDL.  I called Reid's office already, the others I got voicemail/call back crap.  

        Seriously, we need to pressure Reid to HONOR DODD's HOLD.  He honored freakin' Coburn's hold he can honor that of a fellow democrat!  ARGH.

        I cannot believe I can still get THIS pissed with the dems, you think I'd be used to getting screwed over by them....

        Here are the numbers Christy posted:

        Sen. Harry Reid — (202) 224-3542 FAX 202-224-7327

        Senate Judiciary Committee Contact Information:

        Every Senate direct dial number can be found here (including links to just about every senator’s web page, which include both DC office contact information and local office numbers as well). You can reach your Senators toll free thanks to these numbers that katymine found:

        1 (800) 828 - 0498
        1 (800) 614 - 2803
        1 (866) 340 - 9281
        1 (866) 338 - 1015
        1 (877) 851 - 6437

        Also, the Senate Judiciary Committee membership and contact information is as follows:

        Arlen Specter - Pennsylvania - (202) 224-4254 Fax (202) 228-1229
        Joe Biden — Delaware — (202) 224-5042 Fax: 202-224-0139
        Orrin G. Hatch - Utah - (202) 224-5251 Fax (202) 224-6331
        Patrick J. Leahy (Chairman) - Vermont - (202) 224-4242 Fax (202) 224-3479
        Charles E. Grassley - Iowa - (202) 224-3744 Fax (515) 288-5097
        Edward M. Kennedy - Massachusetts - (202) 224-4543 Fax (202) 224-2417
        Jon Kyl - Arizona - (202) 224-4521 Fax (202) 224-2207
        Herbert Kohl - Wisconsin - (202) 224-5653 Fax (202) 224-9787
        Jeff Sessions - Alabama - (202) 224-4124 Fax (202) 224-3149
        Dianne Feinstein - California - (202) 224-3841 Fax (202) 228-3954
        Lindsey Graham - South Carolina - (202) 224-5972 Fax (864) 250-4322
        Russell D. Feingold - Wisconsin - (202) 224-5323 Fax (202) 224-2725
        John Cornyn - Texas - (202) 224-2934 Fax (972) 239-2110
        Charles E. Schumer - New York - (202) 224-6542 Fax (202) 228-3027
        Sam Brownback - Kansas - (202) 224-6521 Fax (202) 228-1265
        Richard J. Durbin - Illinois - (202) 224-2152 Fax (202) 228-0400
        Tom Coburn - Oklahoma - (202) 224-5754 Fax (202) 224-6008
        Benjamin Cardin — (202) 224-4524 Fax (202) 224-1651
        Sheldon Whitehouse — (202) 224-2921 FAX (202) 228-636

        •  Called my Senators. (5+ / 0-)

          For what little good I expect it will do.

          •  Senator Byrd (5+ / 0-)

            Could we all contact Senator Byrd and ask that he talk to Reid and explain that he is assaulting  the rights and prerogatives of Senators. Senator Byrd is the historian and institutional memory of the Senate. Most Senators do not want their authority screwed with. Senator Reid needs to be reminded that he is the Majority Leader not the Majority Emperor.

            •  BeBe... great thought! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BeBe

              Could we all contact Senator Byrd and ask that he talk to Reid and explain that he is assaulting  the rights and prerogatives of Senators.

              Senator Byrd is the historian and institutional memory of the Senate. Most Senators do not want their authority screwed with. Senator Reid needs to be reminded that he is the Majority Leader not the Majority Emperor.

              Good idea... how should we frame it?  Thoughts please! Should we simply use your thought about assaulting the rights and perogatives of the other senators?  I don't know this man and how he works, if you do then please speak out!

              Contact information:

              311 Hart Building
              Washington, DC  20510
              202-224-3954


              300 Virginia Street East
              Suite 2630
              Charleston, WV  25301
              304-342-5855

              217 West King Street
              Room 238
              Martinsburg, WV 25401
              304-264-4626

              •  Do not know Sen Byrd personally, (0+ / 0-)

                but I worked for someone who did know him many years ago and respected him immensely. These are the old guys who quote Pliny the Elder in Latin or some such and you do not have a clue what they are talking about.
                   I think what I am going to do is call his office Monday morning and ask them if this is not a big step away from Senate rules or tradition. Is this a dangerous precedent that directly undercuts the independence of Senators so important in the balance of powers as prescribed by the Constitution. What is so important about this telecom immunity issue that time honored Senate tradition would be upended? Haven't we had enough of the disrespect of tradition that has served us so well from the WH. Is this a personal issue between Sen Reid and Sen Dodd that should be worked out another way? I will tell them that I am a student of history and government and I am always interested in what Sen Byrd thinks on these matters, and I am concerned about the direction this issue is heading towards.

          •  Good... but call Harry too! (0+ / 0-)

            Pressure on his back will do him good.  Perhaps he will resign due to the stress!  

        •  I tried to call again... (0+ / 0-)

          the Reid DC office phone is ringing busy and that is good news!

          LOL... try his other offices!

          Washington, DC
          528 Hart Senate Office Bldg
          Washington, DC 20510
          Phone: 202-224-3542
          Fax: 202-224-7327
          Toll Free for Nevadans:
          1-866-SEN-REID (736-7343)  

          Las Vegas
          Lloyd D. George Building
          333 Las Vegas Boulevard
          South, Suite 8016
          Las Vegas, NV 89101
          Phone: 702-388-5020
          Fax: 702-388-5030

          Reno
          Bruce R. Thompson
          Courthouse & Federal Bldg
          400 S. Virginia St, Suite 902
          Reno, NV 89501
          Phone: 775-686-5750
          Fax: 775-686-5757

  •  Fascinating... After Bush's father ignored (10+ / 0-)

    his base (right wing religious cranks)... he lost.  Since then, junior-the-idiot has courted them religiously (pun intended).  Hmmm....

    Is there a lesson here?  Yes, Virginia, there is:  We can scream, bitch, beg, and moan.. but until we exercise actual power and cause pain to those like Reid, we will get.. NOTHING.

    It is time to focus on Reid -and those like him, and see if we can't get someone else in his slot.  Remember Lieberman?  Many think we failed.. but we didn't.  We forced Lieberman to create his own freaking party, for crying out loud.

    It's time to do the same to Reid and Pelosi.  Pelosi should be easy - her district is heavily progressive.  It's time to help her back her bags.  

    Until we can replace one or more of our spineless "D" "leaders", they will continue to do whatever is most expedent for them and their corporate masters.

    The ONLY way to make them represent US and not the corporate power brokers is to make an example of one of them.  The others, despite corporate cash, will then take heed of what their base / supporters actually want.. after all, what good is corporate cash if you think you won't be around after the next election?

    PUNISHMENT is the name of the game.  And it's time someone pays the price for choosing corporate bullshit over citizen concerns.

    peace,

    J.

    Privatization: The art of giving taxpayer funds to those who don't need it for providing services they view as wasteful.

    by Johnathan Ivan on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 05:14:30 AM PST

    •  Agree, 100% (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Johnathan Ivan

      It is time to focus on Reid -and those like him, and see if we can't get someone else in his slot.  Remember Lieberman?  Many think we failed.. but we didn't.  We forced Lieberman to create his own freaking party, for crying out loud.

      It's time to do the same to Reid and Pelosi.  Pelosi should be easy - her district is heavily progressive.  It's time to help her back her bags.  

      Until we can replace one or more of our spineless "D" "leaders", they will continue to do whatever is most expedent for them and their corporate masters.

      The ONLY way to make them represent US and not the corporate power brokers is to make an example of one of them.  The others, despite corporate cash, will then take heed of what their base / supporters actually want.. after all, what good is corporate cash if you think you won't be around after the next election?

      Focus on Reid right now, but Pelosi is the one who has to put impeachment, the ONLY remedy open to us.  We have to push her too.

      * Call Reid and let him know that we are not happy with him

      * Let him know that we are watching him

      * Call Laurie at the DNC in the director's office:  

      http://www.democrats.org/...

      a) Call 202-863-8000, which will be more effective than e-mailing.

      b) Ask for Laurie in the Director’s Office.  Talk to her about your anger and your plea to Dr. Dean to do something about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.  Tell her that you are part of a 50,000 member activist movement that is ready to leave the party or do everything possible to push them out of their leadership positions, including going ballistic and putting the complaint out to the national media.  Let her know that we are desperate and that Dr. Dean is the only place left to go.

      c) Give her your name and phone number

      d) Ask her to report back after Dr. Dean gets the message.

      e) Please don’t let her thank you for calling and hang up.  Ask her to let you know what Dr. Dean’s solution to the problem is.  

      After talking to Laurie, do this please:

      f) Call your state Democratic Party and ask them to initiate a call to Laurie in the Director’s Office at the DNC.  Again, her number is 202-863-8000.  Ask them to call her to raise a complaint about Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.

      •  Thank you for the info !!! It (0+ / 0-)

        is much appreciated!  I will strive to contact our "representatives" on every issue.. consistently.  But it's always a good idea to have reminders and I thank you for providing handy contact information and the steps to take.

        I will try to consistently raise my voice with you and other progressives;  I also hope we can have more primary challengers - I can't NOT vote for a dem.. even a bad one.  But it would be great to have progressive dems to support in primary contests.

        Thank you again Victoria!

        peace & much luv,

        Johnathan

        Privatization: The art of giving taxpayer funds to those who don't need it for providing services they view as wasteful.

        by Johnathan Ivan on Sat Dec 15, 2007 at 04:29:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  A worse Senate Majority leader - conceivable (5+ / 0-)

    not so much for his votes but his constant demoralization of the caucus?  Our brave fearless leader pallbearer funeral director dead man walking?

  •  VEBO - Vote Every Bum Out (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, corvo, victoria2dc

    VEBO...Vote Every Bum Out

    by ShainZona on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 05:47:47 AM PST

  •  The old saying, "follow the money" (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    farleftcoast, corvo, victoria2dc, alba

    seems to be the appropriate right now.

    There's only one reason anyone would agree to give immunity, m-o-n-e-y.


    The religious fanatics didn't buy the republican party because it was virtuous, they bought it because it was for sale

    by nupstateny on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 05:54:51 AM PST

  •  Said it before and say it again (1+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925
    Hidden by:
    Hornito

    Harry Reid, I hope you chock on GW's cock, you punk-ass bitch.

    Go hang out with your fucking homie Joe Lieberman you stupid Bushie motherfucker.  Stop pretending you're a Dem.  Just switch parties and get it over with.

  •  Reid is usually just failing to protect... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    linnen, GN1927, farleftcoast, victoria2dc

    the constitution.  But telcom immunity is offensive to the consititution because it would esentially remove the power of the courts to proceed with pending litigation.

    Neutralize your personal 7.5 ton/year CO2 footprint.

    by Five of Diamonds on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 06:03:00 AM PST

  •  Called Reid's office at 8:47AM EST (8+ / 0-)

    His phone number is 202-224-3542 and fax is 202-224-7327.
    I was put on hold, but finally spoke to an aide to Reid. I said that word is out on Daily Kos, Salon.com and other blogs that Reid plans to make sure that the final FISA bill contains telecom immunity. I asked him to relay word to Senator Reid that the netroots community has become increasingly disgusted with the failure of the Democrats to oppose the administration on issue after issue, and that, personally, if the FISA bill passes with telecom immunity, I will hold Senator Reid personally responsible. I then plan to make a sizeable contribution to Senator Reid's primary challenger in the next election.
    I don't have any illusions that my call by itself will make a difference, but if Reid's office is flooded with similar calls and emails, who knows? It's worth a try.

    One cannot deny the humanity of another without diminishing one's own. James Baldwin

    by CarolynC967 on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 06:03:45 AM PST

    •  Thanks Caroline... (0+ / 0-)

      I don't have any illusions that my call by itself will make a difference, but if Reid's office is flooded with similar calls and emails, who knows? It's worth a try.

      Remember when we put the pressure on before when Dodd put the Hold on and we called Harry non-stop in both the DC and other offices?

      The Progressive Democrats of America (PDA) announced later that we were making something like 792 calls per minute for a day and a half.  It sounded like an unbelievable number, but that's what they said.

      If we do it again, he will respond.  Also, he needs to know that there is a movement to oust both of them (Pelosi too!). He needs to know it.

  •  Bashing Reid (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hornito, linnen, victoria2dc

    As I read down the thread, it seems this has become a "Bash Reid" fest.  Not that I don't think he deserves it in this case, because he does.  But bashing Reid is not the point Booman is trying to make in this great Diary.  While it might make us feel better to vent on Reid, it is not a constructive way to pass the "good" bill (Judiciary version) and defeat the "bad" bill (Intellegence version).

    That said I have a couple of constructive questions:

    1. Booman has said the Judiciary bill will come first and that the Repubs. will have to decide whether to vote for cloture which requires 60 votes.  He suggests they may just do that if they believe the bill does not have 51 votes to pass.  So in terms of the final passage vote, what are the chances we have 51 votes for passage?  And if not, who are the Dem. defectors and are there any possible Repubs. who might leave their ranks and vote to pass?  Names Please!
    1. Booman said that if cloture cannot be achieved on the "good" bill, the Senate would move on to other business.  But couldn't Reid in his zest to "pass something", bring up the "bad" bill instead for immediate consideration?
    1. On the other hand, if failure to get cloture on the "good" bill will prevent consideration of the "bad" bill for now, and if the Dems. know or suspect that they do not have 51 votes to pass the "good" bill now, could they not stop the "bad" bill from gettingto the floor by voting against cloture on the "good" bill, as crazy as that may seem?
    1.  As raised up thread, what could happen when the good or bad bills go to conference with the House?

    Answers anyone?  And a call to action!

    •  Agreed... but what lies between (0+ / 0-)

      us and the truth, the right vote, and the nailing of Bush/Cheney for their criminal offenses takes place in the offices, the minds and the hearts of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.  

      We understand the point of this diary... but it has to include action.  Without pressure from us, Reid and Pelosi will give Bush what he wants again.  That's why we are there to apply the pressure and create some stress in his life. Do you have any reason whatsoever to think that he will maintain Senator Dodd's hold and do the right thing?  I don't.

  •  Call for Harry Reid's Resignation (4+ / 0-)

    We need to organize a loud and sustained call for Reid's resignation.

    Congressional leadership is elected every year, in January, right?

    Call for Reid to step down.  Peole who have a megaphone, please organize this.

    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace" --Thomas Paine

    by joanneleon on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 06:38:50 AM PST

  •  Fwd this diary to Reid and tell him we know... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jrooth, PeckingOrder

    what he's up to. Should this come to pass, Progressives need to make it clear that they will not be supporting Reid in the future but actively working to unseat him.

  •  Is this even constitutional? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    victoria2dc

    IANAL, nor am I an American Citizen (which means I guess it's OK to render me to Cuba and water-board my ass), but I would think that the Government giving someone retroactive immunity for breaking the law and/or violating someone's civil rights is just as unconstitutional as if the Gov't had done the violation itself (and in this case, the Telcos have colluded with Gov't, so it violates the Constitution all around).

    This law could be conceivably be struck down later as unconstitutional in the courts, could it not?  Not to say that's the best way to do it--not passing immunity is better--but this would mean all is not lost in the fight should Reid push through Bush's Bill, right?

    Cheers,

    Sean

    -7.63, -4.77 | "Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B Pearson

    by whytwolf on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:12:25 AM PST

    •  Unfortunately this president thinks the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      UniC, victoria2dc

      constitution is a damned piece of paper or some such thing.

      And considering his appointees on the Supreme Court, I have no idea what would happen if something like this came before them.

      Though I agree with your premise!

      01-20-09: THE END OF AN ERROR

      by kimoconnor on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:45:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If we can just understand one thing (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      whytwolf

      Several scholars and DC insiders have spoken on the Randi Rhodes show (airamerica.com) and two of them (Jonathan Turley and Brent Budowsky) have said several times that there was a "back room deal" between Bush and Pelosi/Reid right after the November 2006 elections that they would NOT initiate impeachment proceedings.

      Whatever they think they got from the deal, it's got to be taken back.  

      If you take notice, they (the leadership) cave in to the administration on any issue that would lead to criminal investigations.  They cave, they turn it over to the DOJ or some court that will either hold it forever or side with BushCo.  

      If you want to see the truth, then you have to understand that the leadership will simply not impeach. As we know, impeachment is the only remedy we have.  As long as Nancy Pelosi is sitting in the Speaker's office, we will not get anything accomplished and the administration will continue to further take us down the road to lawlessness and even worse.  Can we take a chance that they will allow fair elections?  Do you think that we can trust the administration not to attack Iran?  Do you think that we should give the telecommunications companies and these criminals in the White House a pass on this illegal activity?

      Are you willing to put Nancy and Harry (Jane Harman and Jay Rockefeller) in jail along with Bush/Cheney if they committed crimes?  Do you think they should be allowed to get away with it if they are part of the criminal activity?  

      If your answer is that you are willing to allow an investigation to go where it goes and to hold EVERYONE accountable, then you have to call for Nancy and Harry's resignations and it's your/our responsibility to do what's right.

      They back down every time there is a chance that the road to the uncovering of criminal activity opens up.  They stick their power in the middle of the road and block the investigations.

      How long has Kucinich's impeachment bill against Cheney been sitting in the Judiciary Committee?  Why hasn't an honorable man like Chairman Conyers taken action on it?  Why?  It opens the road to criminal activity and impeachment. Nancy stops it.  If you think that's right, then you are allowed your opinion.  I don't think it's right and I want to do something about it.

  •  It's amazing.... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RichM, catfood, farleftcoast, corvo

    .....how Reid and Boxer can become sharp as tacks with the parliamentary maneuvers when stopping initiatives from our side.

    Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass. - Barry Goldwater, 1981

    by Doug in SF on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:14:30 AM PST

  •  Reid said Cloture vote on FISA on Monday (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dr Colossus, Treg, corvo, PeckingOrder

    Just now as the Senate started.

    Said they are going to cloture because Dodd and Feingold want it.

    Claimed he wants committee structure is sound, do their work, are stable, he thinks he has to follow procedure. ???

    On FISA bill, there are two committees who are involved, he wanted to bring the best of both to the floor, but cannot do this unless he tramples rules.

    He plans to start with intelligence, then the judiciary. DAMN HIM!

    The SEnate will determine hat needs to be done with FISA. Not everyone will be happy.

    He has an obligation to move bill to the floor, and the debate will start on Monday.

    Not everyone had chance to offer amendments, but he did not want so many, (taking too long) after all they were there till 8:30 last night. (AARGH!)

    01-20-09: THE END OF AN ERROR

    by kimoconnor on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:15:09 AM PST

  •  Censure Reid--it's time he got a pie in the face! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, victoria2dc

    so if we know the game they're playing, we need to develop tactics to play back at them. this can no longer be a spectator sport. time to put the ass-whoopin' into politics. Reid, Pelosi, Hoyer need major ass-whoopin'. Can't California, Nevada, or Maryland do something to stop these gremlins they've given us?

    We have a plain and tested device for keeping tabs on the government when it's keeping tabs on Americans. It is our Constitution~~Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse

    by PeckingOrder on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:22:29 AM PST

  •  God I am hopping mad ... (7+ / 0-)

    I phoned Sen. Nelson's office to urge him to do what he can to pressure Reid to introduce the SJC version as the base bill - very polite aid but I'm not sure she understood the issue.

    Sent a fax to Reid's office telling him he's not fooling anybody and the whole nation is watching.

  •  Harry Reid... (6+ / 0-)

    The best Senate Majority Leader George W. Bush could ask for.

    Let's face it folks - we've been punked.

    "Frankly, you epitomize weak. Your every pore exudes feebleness. You *are* surrender monkeys." - Meteor Blades to Capitulation Dems

    by RichM on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:27:20 AM PST

  •  Reid and Pelosi have failed us (5+ / 0-)

    and I'm being generous here. Betrayal might be more accurate. I'd like to believe they are being blackmailed but that too is being overly generous.

    Time to resign, Mr. Reid, Ms. Pelosi. It's too bad that the fighting amongst the voters and the elected Democrats will make the neocons chortle with glee and dance in the streets. Either our Senators and Representatives do their constitutional duty or they are outa there.

    The Dem leaders think we are Charlie Brown and they are Lucy with the football. "No really we are NOT going to capitulate this time." "That's what you said the last time." "We swears it." "Uh huh."

    "I think you ought to know I'm feeling very depressed."   —Marvin, The Paranoid Android

    by londubh on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:28:05 AM PST

  •  The sad conclusion (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LucyMO

    The republicans spent 6 years proving Noam Chomsky right, and now the democrats have spent a year proving Ralph Nader right.

  •  the Dems want the FISA bill to pass so that (5+ / 0-)

    when the new Democratic administration takes over, they will use it and the monstrous witch-hunt bill Jane Harmon cooked up to track down and destroy political opposition.

    The corporate wing of the Democratic Party is preparing to destroy the progressive wing once victory over the Republicans has been achieved.  They will do this through a classic Bismarckian strategy: buying off a portion of the working/middle class through some half-assed ill-starred version of health care reform, and through ruthless oppression of the remaining opposition.  Once the progressive wing has been de-fanged, the Corporate Democrats can go about being what they've always wanted to be: Republicans, but without the annoying fundamentalists with their big hair and embarassing makeup.

    Bush repealed Godwin's Law with a Signing Statement.

    by Mad Kossack on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:46:27 AM PST

  •  This is why the public can't follow Congress (0+ / 0-)

    What you said was so confusing. I understood it but most Americans won't.

    Voting in the US Congress should be simplified.

  •  I never thought I would say this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    farleftcoast, victoria2dc, LucyMO

    If this comes to pass, I will rescind my membership in the Democratic party

    "This is not America; Sha la la la la" -David Bowie

    by mikey666 on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:49:09 AM PST

  •  It's worse than you thought (9+ / 0-)

    It's total deception and trickery.

    This Article at Democratic Underground explains it well.

    Reid is using parliamentary maneuver to give the Senate Democrats a choice between voting for a FISA version that allows all wiretapping imaginable or a version with telecom immunity.

    As Caroline Fredrickson, director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office said, "Reid has set up a Catch-22 that forces senators to choose either no immunity for the telecoms or minimal Fourth Amendment protections – but not both at the same time."

    This is not capitulating.
    This is actively working to defeat the will of the people who elect Democrats, but in a dirty, underhanded way--effectively screwing us and lying to us about it.

    Shorter Reid: "So which is it, Senators?  A vote for slavery or a vote to repeal the Bill of Rights?  It's your choice, after all!"

  •  I called (7+ / 0-)

    Senators Reid, Feinstein, Boxer, Obama,Biden and Clinton and asked that they all support Senator Dodd's hold. Only Biden's office said he planned to support Sen Dodd. Reid's office said he always supported the holds of other senators.

    after the farce comes the tragedy.

    by slouching on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 08:16:41 AM PST

  •  2010 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BooMan23, farleftcoast, victoria2dc

    When Reid is up for re-election.

    In the meantime, how to contact Reid by phone:

    DC Phone: (202)224-3542

    Carson City, NV: Voice: (775)882-7343

    Reno, NV:  Voice: (775)686-5750

    Las Vegas, NV:  Voice: (702)388-5020

    Unless you have access to an 800 or other free phone number.

    Call your local senators also.

  •  Sunset is the best option (4+ / 0-)

    The FISA bill, with or without immunity, contains a provision for blanket warrants-- unconstitutional under the 4th Amendment.  

    We don't need no stinkin' FISA "reform."  Let's revert to the original FISA law, the one Bush openly violated.  Oh, and put impeachment back on the table please.

    "Everything's shiny, Captain. Not to fret."

    by rmwarnick on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 08:30:26 AM PST

  •  talk to James Comey (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    farleftcoast

    Telecom immunity is a special case.  What it will mean is that there are no investigations and trials for those who broke laws in the course of domestic spying.

    James Comey said that he and Bush negotiated a fix for domestic spying illegality.  What was it?  That's the key -- we need to know.  My theory is that the two week timetable for completing the fix means that it involved taking activities then performed illegally by the NSA and moving them to a contractor, probably offshore.

    Where will you find a clandestine data mining capability up to the task?  In Israel.  Before you troll rate please read Naomi Klein's chapter on the Israeli data/security industry in The Shock Doctrine.

    More theory, admittedly CT:  Israel abused the access in a way that jeopardized US national security.  Some form of digital age treason was the result, punishable by death if discovered.  Heads of intelligence committees fully implicated, etc.

    Israel gets huge subsidies from the US.  The Israel lobby is the biggest funding source for the Democratic Party.  These are dots that I connect.  It helps to explain why we are being stabbed in the back by Feinstein, Harmon, et al. A lot would come out on this relationship in any investigation, which is why all of them are blocked or stalled.

    It's an ugly thought, but facts on the ground are incomprehensible.  In any case, we need the accountability that Pelosi promised.  Sheldon Whitehouse -- can he break the barrier for us?

    The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein -- best book ever, I nominate for a Nobel Prize!

    by xaxado on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 08:46:31 AM PST

  •  Morons (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    victoria2dc, xaxado

    The law will sunset in February and too many within the caucus are afraid to let the law sunset.

    Why?  Can anyone explain why?  It can't be they are just afraid of being labled by Rush Limbaugh.  It can't be that simple.

    They are not afraid.  They are complicit.  But there must be something in it for them.  No politician does anything without a reason that benefits them somehow.  

    Where is the benefit?  I haven't yet seen any credible analysis of what the strategy is here.  

  •  Reid's response to me (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    victoria2dc

    i've repeatedly implored my united states senator and the leader of the democratic majority in the united states senate to take a strong stand for the rule of law and the u.s. constitution and what follows is a good example of what i've gotten back...

    I appreciate hearing from you, and I have noted your opposition to granting retroactive immunity to telecom companies.

  •  The Progressive Party... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    zett

    when is that going to happen?

    The more history you read, the more you realize that things have really always been the same here.

    Nothing will fundamentally change until the vast majority of Americans who aren't members of the ruling class rise up and force the changes to happen.

    Getting that majority to recognize reality is the problem, since our rulers control our media and educational system...we're indoctrinated from the time we start school to believe that what's good for the rich is good for America. Getting people to see through the bullshit is the key and to date, a problem that hasn't been overcome to the extent necessary.

    Or maybe I'm just in a bad mood...

    The penalty that good men pay for not being interested in politics is to be governed by men worse than themselves. - Plato

    by robroser on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 08:56:31 AM PST

  •  It's Rockefeller who's the problem (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    minorityusa, victoria2dc

    plus Reid
    Rockefeller's bill gives immunity to tel companies...
    it's offered through the intelligence committee

    Pat Leahy's bill - through the judiciary committee does not give immunity to tel co.s

    call the intelligence cttee and call Rockefeller's office  (202) 224-6472

    They just hung up on  me telling me they had to take more calls...after they agreed that Rockefeller's bill gave retroactive immunity to tel co.s

  •  Reid just announced (0+ / 0-)

    ...that the fuck-over will begin this afternoon.

    Arrogant lips are unsuited to a fool-- how much worse lying lips to a ruler - Proverbs 17:7

    by Barbara Morrill on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 09:21:44 AM PST

    •  I just got off the phone with Dodd's office (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      victoria2dc

      His staffer said it wasn't clear that the bill was going to come up to day. He also said that the Senator would do whatever he could to stop a bill with telecom immunity in it, but that he doesn't know what the legislative strategy will be yet.

      Of course I told him we would support him and hope that he would do whatever he could including fillibustering.

  •  Leadership (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    victoria2dc

    So you have a principle issue such as this. A good leader will call a press conference, assemble a number of other legistlators and proclaim: "Over my dead body! Under my leaderhip, Congress will pass no such bill, because it is wrong for the country." And then not budge an inch. A leader such as those in power today will try some legal manoeuvering to pass exactly what's been demanded by the lobbbyists and then complain how they just don't have the votes to pass what the electorate wants. And that they had to pass something, in order to protect America. Simply disgusting.

  •  From Democracy for America: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    victoria2dc

    Dear Sally,

    Please Report Your Call  
    Last month, you took action and the Senate Judiciary Committee passed a bill that did not include retroactive immunity. Immunity would let telecommunication companies who broke the law helping the Bush Administration spy on Americans off the hook.

    Now, Senator Harry Reid, the Democratic Majority Leader, is using procedural tricks to make your work irrelevant by bringing the Intelligence Committee's version of the same bill to the Senate floor instead. What's the big difference? This version of the bill includes retroactive immunity for telecommunication companies.

    Wait! That's not all. Even this bill can be stopped if Senator Reid just respects the hold Senator Chris Dodd has placed on the bill.

    However, media reports indicate that Senator Reid will not honor Senator Dodd's hold. That's where we come in, and we have to act fast. The vote could happen in the next several hours. Please pick up your phone right now and call Senator Reid:

    Senator Harry Reid
    202-224-3542

    Please report how your call went here:
    http://www.DemocracyforAmerica.com/...

    Here's the suggested message:

    "I'm calling to ask Senator Reid to honor Senator Dodd's hold on the Intelligence Committee's FISA reform bill.

    I do not support any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunication companies who helped the Bush Administration spy on Americans. I'm counting on Senator Reid to stand up to President Bush and for the Constitution."

    We don't have much time. If we work quickly, we might be able to stop this bill. Please take a few minutes right now.

    Thank you for everything you do.

    -Charles

    Charles Chamberlain
    Political Director

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Share this email:
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    Paid for by Democracy for America, www.DemocracyforAmerica.com and not authorized by any candidate. Contributions to Democracy for America are not deductible for federal income tax purposes.

     

    Thanks for the diary and TAKE ACTION!

     

    Practice random acts of kindness (favorite bumper sticker)

    by Sally in SF on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 11:15:37 AM PST

    •  Okay... just called the Las Vegas office (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sally in SF

      to register my request and complaint.  Guy didn't know anything (his name is Tom) and he said we have to call the DC office to find out what Reid is doing with this bill because he doesn't know.

      He said that he can't tell us what the senator will do.  I told him that the DC office is too busy.  He was rude and said he can't help.

      Guess the staff is getting pissed off!

  •  You know, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    victoria2dc

    sleezy, capitulatory, underhanded tricks like this really make me wish the Democratic Party had won the last election.

    Oh wait - they did.

    Thy hand, great Anarch! lets the curtain fall: And universal Darkness buries All.

    by Dunciad on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 11:16:14 AM PST

  •  why not force the vetoes and the filibusters? (0+ / 0-)

    Can someone explain why it is not a good strategy to make Bush veto 500 bills until he compromises and/or the repubs filibuster 500 more? Won't the media perk up when Bush starts to pass new records of obstruction? I'd really like to see him go down as the most unpopular president ever, by far, and hang his legacy around every single repugs neck that tries to run for office. Make them disavow everything to do with Bush to have any chance of winning. This is really about long term strategy here, and I just don't see it in the "we need to pass some bills or we'll look bad" plan.

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